MMORPGs How they have changed for the better? or worse?

[MonteCristo]

Well, all I know is for me, the closest bonds I formed on an MMO were doing the Chains of Promathia missions with my static for the story at the time. Similar to how those who fight together on a battlefield form a unique, tight knit bond, the same applies when people struggle together. It doesn't exist as much in games like these because there really is no need for people to struggle together. Savage is optional and can easily be done in PF with people you won't see again. All the other content is done in DF, and you DEFINITELY don't see them again. The struggle with a certain group of people on a persistent basis is notably absent. With dungeons, you're lucky if you get a 'hi' from the people in your random group. The rest is just speed running the content, while probably looking at something on your other monitor. There is very little engagement, and most people only do them to reach their weekly tomestone cap.

This is spot on...id pay good money for the devs to read this comment and actually have them take some form of action. Ive said for years this game feels very hollow in more ways than one.

[Nix]

Well, all I know is for me, the closest bonds I formed on an MMO were doing the Chains of Promathia missions with my static for the story at the time. Similar to how those who fight together on a battlefield form a unique, tight knit bond, the same applies when people struggle together. It doesn't exist as much in games like these because there really is no need for people to struggle together. Savage is optional and can easily be done in PF with people you won't see again. All the other content is done in DF, and you DEFINITELY don't see them again. The struggle with a certain group of people on a persistent basis is notably absent. With dungeons, you're lucky if you get a 'hi' from the people in your random group. The rest is just speed running the content, while probably looking at something on your other monitor. There is very little engagement, and most people only do them to reach their weekly tomestone cap.

Amen to this - not saying strong friendships aren't formed, but honestly I've found it harder to make those bonds - especially in the last 10 years of gaming.
I am still friends with many of my old linkshell members from FFXI - I started playing and met them back in 2004ish. In FFXIV, there's only really two players I've known since the game's release and who I would consider "close friends"... people seem content to play solo, hardly talk in chat, remain in FCs for the buffs over the companionship, and don't even really interact in dungeons unless it's to blame the someone for something (/sarcasm, but you get what I mean).

I feel like FFXIV, and modern MMOs too, that it's harder to forge those bonds because gameplay doesn't really foster it. It's not for lack of trying, but when you only need to check in with players once in a while to make progress, the social aspect of the game suffers.

That being said, it's not all bad. I have enjoyed seeing people come together this week for Moonfire Faire - Costa Del Sol on Hyperion has been pretty chatty & friendly; it's just a shame that this level of interaction will be gone until the next event that brings everyone together

[Barraind]

Amen to this - not saying strong friendships aren't formed, but honestly I've found it harder to make those bonds - especially in the last 10 years of gaming.

There are more people I talk with from my EQ and wow days than people I talk to I've met in GW2 / 14 / any newer games.

The feeling of games creating a community is long gone at this point. You dont need one, just press the queue button and never say anything all day every day.

[MonteCristo]

There are more people I talk with from my EQ and wow days than people I talk to I've met in GW2 / 14 / any newer games.

The feeling of games creating a community is long gone at this point. You dont need one, just press the queue button and never say anything all day every day.

Exacttttttttly!

[Windsun33]

I still remember my first group boss kill in EQ. How many remember their first in this game, or any recent game?

[linay]

I still remember my first group boss kill in EQ. How many remember their first in this game, or any recent game?

I do: That level 10 guildhest boss. I nearly panicked seeing all the adds coming out.

[Edax]

I still remember my first group boss kill in EQ. How many remember their first in this game, or any recent game?

I remember the first time I tanked in this game. I asked my FC if anyone would patiently come along and give me advise. That was in Sastasha. I also remembered the first time I healed in this game as a pug. The tank was also a first timer in that and wasn't equipped for tanking at all and her health dropped like a stone every time. This was in the Copperbell Mines. Heck, I even remember the first time I even did a dungeon run in an MMORPG, that was the Deadmines in WoW way back in 2007.

[Alexandre_Noireau]

I'm sorry but equating MMORPGs to drugs and saying MMORPGs make the diseased even sicker comes across as needlessly alarmist and hyperbolic.

Yet it isn't.

Videogames are confirmed to activate the very same processes and brain interconnections than several kind of drugs. In fact in some cases even physiological effects have been documented, rare occurrence but still there. Let alone what social isolation does to basic brain functions - And guess just what videogames in general do. Social Isolation.
Specially in the case of people who plays for several, several hours. I'm not talking about 2-4 hours. Im talking about teenagers or NEET adults that can spend well over +10 hours daily. That is particularly unhealthy for people with already diagnosed psychological or psychiatric sickness. Last thing you want a person with depression do is to spend his whole life in a room watching a monitor not interacting with anyone. Which a good chuck of populations in several countries are doing.

Again, im not saying videogames provoke depression, anxiety or something like that. Im saying that spending 8 hours of your day in videogames is alarming for an integral biosocial development and psychological health, let alone if you are already diagnosed.

And no, NEETs are not a "minority" playing these MMORPGs. In fact, the issue here is that the whole game design of these kind of videogames revolve on making the games specifically for them. The myth of "grind is part of the design" is just a cheap excuse when you notice that is exactly them the target audience of these kind of games.

Just like whales are for the monetization of these games.

I agree. I've studied just how overworked Japanese students and salary-men can get, or how companies over there hire for life. I will not look down on a NEET for rejecting that lifestyle.
I was pressured into getting a college degree and it made me miserable. I was pressured into my first two jobs and they made me miserable. How can I look down at people who who would rather be happy? Making money for the company I work for certainly isn't bringing me joy and it's not something I'll look back on in 40 years with any pride. If a shut-in wants to play FFXIV and they can afford it, then I say more power to them.

Thats tangent to what im saying.
Of course unhealthy societies generate unhealthy people.
But you cannot justify social/reality escapism, let alone when that escapism is something that is supporting said unhealthy society in the first place (operational conditioning for mass consumption of goods and media - Videogame addicts.)

"More power to them" - You are just supporting a passive form of suicide. Then again, you might even argue that suicide is a personal option that should be supported and of course, we don't hold people to the same standars of health.
I suggest watching a few classes or talks of Robert Sapolsky, specially on depression.

That people needs health care and social support to HEAL from their SICKNESS.

Not "more power to them" to slowly kill themselves, and at the very least, permanently damage their brain functions.

[Zabuza]

Yet it isn't.

Videogames are confirmed to activate the very same processes and brain interconnections than several kind of drugs. In fact in some cases even physiological effects have been documented, rare occurrence but still there. Let alone what social isolation does to basic brain functions - And guess just what videogames in general do. Social Isolation.
Specially in the case of people who plays for several, several hours. I'm not talking about 2-4 hours. Im talking about teenagers or NEET adults that can spend well over +10 hours daily. That is particularly unhealthy for people with already diagnosed psychological or psychiatric sickness. Last thing you want a person with depression do is to spend his whole life in a room watching a monitor not interacting with anyone. Which a good chuck of populations in several countries are doing.

Again, im not saying videogames provoke depression, anxiety or something like that. Im saying that spending 8 hours of your day in videogames is alarming for an integral biosocial development and psychological health, let alone if you are already diagnosed.

And no, NEETs are not a "minority" playing these MMORPGs. In fact, the issue here is that the whole game design of these kind of videogames revolve on making the games specifically for them. The myth of "grind is part of the design" is just a cheap excuse when you notice that is exactly them the target audience of these kind of games.

Just like whales are for the monetization of these games.



Thats tangent to what im saying.
Of course unhealthy societies generate unhealthy people.
But you cannot justify social/reality escapism, let alone when that escapism is something that is supporting said unhealthy society in the first place (operational conditioning for mass consumption of goods and media - Videogame addicts.)

"More power to them" - You are just supporting a passive form of suicide. Then again, you might even argue that suicide is a personal option that should be supported and of course, we don't hold people to the same standars of health.
I suggest watching a few classes or talks of Robert Sapolsky, specially on depression.

That people needs health care and social support to HEAL from their SICKNESS.

Not "more power to them" to slowly kill themselves, and at the very least, permanently damage their brain functions.

Ah, so we're back to saying that those of us who enjoyed the old MMORPGs are sick and broken people who shouldn't have games that we enjoy, because we're not healthy enough to decide that on our own. Only you and people like you are stable enough to decide for us. Thank you for your concern, but I interact with people around me IRL just fine. Problem is, I am typically bored by IRL interactions. I find most of the conversations of the people around me IRL to be shallow and uninteresting. Though it sounds as though you're saying I should be forced into those interactions and not be allowed to do something that is interesting to me and which actually engages me mentally.

[Edax]

Yet it isn't.

Videogames are confirmed to activate the very same processes and brain interconnections than several kind of drugs. In fact in some cases even physiological effects have been documented, rare occurrence but still there. Let alone what social isolation does to basic brain functions - And guess just what videogames in general do.

And yet there are clear distinct differences between illegal drugs and video games. You found some points of commonality between two things and you're using that as an excuse to call video games "drugs", but that is still nonsense. You can link coffee and drugs and claim they activate the very same processes and brain interconnections with several kind of drugs, but it will still come off as nonsense if you call Starbucks a drug dealer.

Yet it isn't.


"More power to them" - You are just supporting a passive form of suicide. Then again, you might even argue that suicide is a personal option that should be supported and of course, we don't hold people to the same standars of health.
I suggest watching a few classes or talks of Robert Sapolsky, specially on depression.

That people needs health care and social support to HEAL from their SICKNESS.

Not "more power to them" to slowly kill themselves, and at the very least, permanently damage their brain functions.

You are making the grave mistake of equating a lifestyle to suicide. How one chooses to live their life is completely antithetical to ending it. If you believe playing video games are a form of suicide, then that is because of your subjective viewpoints on what living life is.

By a different subjective measure, it can be said that those who engage in forms of entertainment have a zest for life. I'm afraid your not being very objective when it comes to the topic of video games and other people's lifestyle choices.

I support people seeking happiness regardless of employment or education status. You call it passive suicide, I call it life.