Ninja is weak, like very weak.

[Deceptus]

Interesting you pull the most favorable statistic for supporting your argument here.

But how about you take the whole set of eden savage here and have a look at the big picture?

Now this looks a bit different: A melee DPS clumped together with the performance of a ranged one.

Oh, and let's not forget EX trials, while we are at it.

And who's still on the very bottom, post-gust slash buff?

Someone has to be at the bottom. Would you prefer the dancer mains have to be there? The Bards / Machinists? The question is always what is the spread. Anything more than about 10% DPS potential should probably be looked at.

But simply: Any job that relies on raid utility is going to have less dps because they make the raid better due to their lack of dps. Total raid dps due to trick attack is basically added to NIN DPS total. That's what many aren't doing here and it's not arguing from an honest stand point.

If you want NIN DPS to be higher, Trick Attack needs to be lowered.

[Arrius]

Someone has to be at the bottom. Would you prefer the dancer mains have to be there? The Bards / Machinists?

Not a melee DPS, for sure. They never should be par or worse than the majority of ranged DPS in any situation.

[Nariel]

Someone has to be at the bottom.

Sure, but there is quite a difference between being at the bottom for a 200-300 DpS margin and being a burden at equivalent skillplay level.

[Rivxkobe]

I was going to say..
I've seen nothing showing that NIN is behind any tank.
I think NIN does need a buff, but I honestly don't think NIN is 30% behind the other melee DPS.

pDPS is the only think that matters though. /s

They are using 30% (27%) because they are ignoring rDPS.

[Greywolfamakir]

Interesting you pull the most favorable statistic for supporting your argument here.

But how about you take the whole set of eden savage here and have a look at the big picture?

Now this looks a bit different: A melee DPS clumped together with the performance of a ranged one.

Oh, and let's not forget EX trials, while we are at it.

And who's still on the very bottom, post-gust slash buff?

It was the last boss, i was looking nothing "weird" just the last boss. I dont care about Primals, just real Bosses.

Ninja is fine. Maybe Monk and/or Dragoon are a bit overperforming, but ninja, like support melee is in a good place.

[Sylve]

Ya, I was confused a bit as well until noticed they pulled a certain stat, showing the other DPS were doing poorly to make Ninja look good, though I was going nuts for a minute until you pointed it out.

Either way, if look at the overall, it shows Ninja and Dancer very low, this is why when you do stats you toss out the highest and lowest to get the average.

The absolute highest is 14.3k and the absolute lowest is 12.3k.
A 2k or 14% variance.

And that's at the absolute max numbers posted for those jobs. The variance is smaller at the lowest end, coming at 11%.

The most interesting thing about that data set is that it shows a neat linear path from Dancer up to Monk in the severity of DPS loss when resetting their buffs/rotation. Keep in mind, I'm referring to core dps, not what these jobs manage in their burst phases.
DNC, RDM and BRD are all very easy to go from 0 - 100% dps.
NIN has some buildup to its burst, But generally speaking Huton into AE with SF up and you're back to normal. It's level with SMN and MCH, Both of whom can reset their rotations fairly easily, but not quite as easily as the aforementioned 3.
Then we have SAM as a middle ground between the complexity of the upper 3 and the relative ease of the ones below. Just 2 buffs, a DoT and you're good to go.
And finally, we come to DRG, MNK and BLM. All of whom suffer the most from a rotation reset. Monks with GL being a pain to bring back to max, followed by BLM who basically is forced into its 'down' phase in order to reset and finally DRG, which has a core rotation not unlike SAM but has stages to its rotation, and falling to start of that is a hefty GCD cost to get everything flowing again.

So out of 10 DPS jobs, NIN is tied for 5th place with SMN and MCH. And considering the aforementioned DPS variance of just 11-14%, Balance is in a surprisingly good spot right now. I wouldn't expect anything more than very minor tweaks going forward.

[Greywolfamakir]

The absolute highest is 14.3k and the absolute lowest is 12.3k.
A 2k or 14% variance.

And that's at the absolute max numbers posted for those jobs. The variance is smaller at the lowest end, coming at 11%.

The most interesting thing about that data set is that it shows a neat linear path from Dancer up to Monk in the severity of DPS loss when resetting their buffs/rotation. Keep in mind, I'm referring to core dps, not what these jobs manage in their burst phases.
DNC, RDM and BRD are all very easy to go from 0 - 100% dps.
NIN has some buildup to its burst, But generally speaking Huton into AE with SF up and you're back to normal. It's level with SMN and MCH, Both of whom can reset their rotations fairly easily, but not quite as easily as the aforementioned 3.
Then we have SAM as a middle ground between the complexity of the upper 3 and the relative ease of the ones below. Just 2 buffs, a DoT and you're good to go.
And finally, we come to DRG, MNK and BLM. All of whom suffer the most from a rotation reset. Monks with GL being a pain to bring back to max, followed by BLM who basically is forced into its 'down' phase in order to reset and finally DRG, which has a core rotation not unlike SAM but has stages to its rotation, and falling to start of that is a hefty GCD cost to get everything flowing again.

So out of 10 DPS jobs, NIN is tied for 5th place with SMN and MCH. And considering the aforementioned DPS variance of just 11-14%, Balance is in a surprisingly good spot right now. I wouldn't expect anything more than very minor tweaks going forward.

Totally agree

You can't expect the same rDPS with lower effort/punishment.

[Nedkel]

How can you say that when objective data says its behind in single target?

You are one of the people who are ignoring the data, which clearly states that ninja is dealing 10-11% less dps than the top best dps job in the game.

Ninja has a damage bonus for a entire raid group every 60 seconds, basically add the entire raid damage into one, multiply it by 0.1 and divide by 6 and you should have a number that you could add to the ninja dps.
Add this up to the total ninja dps and you will see it is on par with dragoon or BLM.

Why are people so ignorant and does not look on the whole picture, eh. Better of memeing about ninja being useless, which is not the case at all. FF logs should consider counting buffs into the dps, it does not show everything

[aiqa]

You are one of the people who are ignoring the data, which clearly states that ninja is dealing 10-11% less dps than the top best dps job in the game.

Ninja has a damage bonus for a entire raid group every 60 seconds, basically add the entire raid damage into one, multiply it by 0.1 and divide by 6 and you should have a number that you could add to the ninja dps.
Add this up to the total ninja dps and you will see it is on par with dragoon or BLM.

Why are people so ignorant and does not look on the whole picture, eh. Better of memeing about ninja being useless, which is not the case at all.

But fflogs already does that for you, no need to calculate it yourself.
You can just look at the rDPS numbers, which already redistribute numbers based on damage buffs (see https://www.fflogs.com/help/rdps).
What you should not do is manually add damage from TA to rDPS, that would be counting TA twice.

So all in all you're making a good point, if TA was twice as strong as it is now ninja would bring the same overall damage to the raid as a black mage.

[Barraind]

Out of everyone, I feel worse for Samurai, a class with 0 raid buffing that's sitting solidly behind Monk and Dragoon.

Machinist is in kind of a funny spot for having 0 offensive utility as well and should probably sit just behind blm/sam.

Monk buffs were probably well over the top, but everyone's pretty much said that.