Ninja is weak, like very weak.

[KageTokage]

Looking at the target dummy HP values has made it pretty obvious that they severely overestimated how much personal DPS NIN would be outputting.

It's estimated that you need 11.65K DPS to destroy the ES4 dummy in three minutes, but the other melee only need about 1K more then that despite them doing around 2-3K more DPS.

[Nihility]

feels like ninja is just more super tedious and difficult to maintain rather than just outright weak.

Sort of sounds like ninjutsu might be getting treated to work like dances and get potencies to match which might be pretty cool. slow down the insanity for a moment every 30s for a super huge hit

[ForteNightshade]

feels like ninja is just more super tedious and difficult to maintain rather than just outright weak.

Sort of sounds like ninjutsu might be getting treated to work like dances and get potencies to match which might be pretty cool. slow down the insanity for a moment every 30s for a super huge hit

While Mudra lag has become worse than ever. Ninja is, indeed, downright weak. When Monk is pulling over a 1,000 more rDPS... what's even the point of Trick Attack? Both it and Samurai need some serious attention in regards to their damage. Granted, Monk needs a straight nerf at this point. They did not realize how much Riddle of Fire slowed them down.

[TaiyouSeishin]

feels like ninja is just more super tedious and difficult to maintain rather than just outright weak.

Sort of sounds like ninjutsu might be getting treated to work like dances and get potencies to match which might be pretty cool. slow down the insanity for a moment every 30s for a super huge hit

It is rather outright weak. Over compensation for having trick so we are not meta, they bloated our button play too. So it is more tedious and difficult to maintain, with no pay off, not for as long as TA is overvalued (by numbers i mean, the benefit of 1k is nullified by being 2k behind someone else)

[Barraind]

Again I'll say it. Ninjas have been the heaviest damage in previous FF games. Rogue, the class behind the Ninja job has likewise always been heavy hitting across MMORPGs for 20 years. Nothing about rogue screams I'm gonna buff peoples damage.

Ehh.

For physical damage, it regularly gets beaten by Archer/Hunter and Monk across Final Fantasy games (up to and including Dimensions) and MMO's. It also tends to lose the overall usefulness race to Samurai in a number of FF games due to Samurai being useful and ninja being stuck in light armor with dual wield made irrelevant (or equippable by anyone) and one gimmick it relies on being a workable strategy in order to hang.

[Kokomi]

I main ninja and use it in Eden Savage. Ninja is honestly fine for casual content, I'm not even sure if it lags in dps for aoe dungeon mobs (if someone knows more please share) and player skill in non-savage/extreme creates way more of a gap than at most a 10% difference in dps if everyone were playing optimally.

In savage it's the worst of the four melee in terms of raid dps (this includes Trick Attack). There is zero reason to take a ninja over monk/dragoon right now which are the meta melees, all else being equal. That being said every class including ninja has cleared E4S at this point so if you can play well you're fine, you just won't be able to carry your party like if you were a good monk or blm. Another issue though is locking out classes in pf, since dps checks are tight right now in E2S+, I've seen quite a few clear parties on Crystal locking out ninja (for some reason they never lock out dancer or rdm though, even though they have even lower rdps).

Ninja needs a boost in savage for sure, especially considering how they're the least popular class in that content by a significant gap. Luckily the team has acknowledged the problems in the live letter and changes are coming in 5.1

[RenAshdoll]

I main ninja and use it in Eden Savage. Ninja is honestly fine for casual content, I'm not even sure if it lags in dps for aoe dungeon mobs (if someone knows more please share) and player skill in non-savage/extreme creates way more of a gap than at most a 10% difference in dps if everyone were playing optimally.

In savage it's the worst of the four melee in terms of raid dps (this includes Trick Attack). There is zero reason to take a ninja over monk/dragoon right now which are the meta melees, all else being equal. That being said every class including ninja has cleared E4S at this point so if you can play well you're fine, you just won't be able to carry your party like if you were a good monk or blm. Another issue though is locking out classes in pf, since dps checks are tight right now in E2S+, I've seen quite a few clear parties on Crystal locking out ninja (for some reason they never lock out dancer or rdm though, even though they have even lower rdps).

Ninja needs a boost in savage for sure, especially considering how they're the least popular class in that content by a significant gap. Luckily the team has acknowledged the problems in the live letter and changes are coming in 5.1

Problem is 5.1 is like, 3 months away. By the time 5.08 drops the number of learning parties will have dropped too...

[Kokomi]

Problem is 5.1 is like, 3 months away. By the time 5.08 drops the number of learning parties will have dropped too...

We'll just have to deal with pf lockout unfortunately (these parties are still in the minority and you can also make you own, I just have a problem with the mindset behind them). Like I said, ninja can clear this raid tier and our rdps isn't bad enough to be a liability, but it will have a tough time picking up the slack of other party members. If you play a class that does higher dps, you should be expected to do that much more in clear parties.

Then again, I haven't done much E4S yet and it looks like ninja does especially bad in that fight compared to the first three...

[KageTokage]

We'll just have to deal with pf lockout unfortunately (these parties are still in the minority and you can also make you own, I just have a problem with the mindset behind them). Like I said, ninja can clear this raid tier and our rdps isn't bad enough to be a liability, but it will have a tough time picking up the slack of other party members. If you play a class that does higher dps, you should be expected to do that much more in clear parties.

Then again, I haven't done much E4S yet and it looks like ninja does especially bad in that fight compared to the first three...

NIN being excluded is like the norm, not the exception when it comes to ES4.

It's also partly why their parses look so bad because they have extremely low representation.