Give RDM Water and Blizzard already!

[PatronasCharm]

I think you meant to type "fit with the job", but on the off-chance you did in fact imply adding Verwater and Verblizzard would "fix" the job: Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Just adding more procs that do elemental damage will not "fix" anything. In a vacuum it won't change anything without reason to use them.

If the goal is to increase the depth of the job, cool! But focus on actually accomplishing that first, and add the water/ice labels later.
I admit I find it very conspicuous that the devs have avoided giving RDM water and ice magic so far without any stated reason why not, and it sure as heck would fit my collector's mentality if RDM was the first full-caster to access all six since 1.0 CNJ, but the devs are under no obligation to give them to us, especially when a spell's damage type is as cosmetic as its visual effects.

Yeah I meant "Fit," I fixed it, thank you for pointing that out =D

With it's ability to manipulate both spectrums of Dark and Light magic, I believe they could play a little "elemental wheel" mini game later down the Red Mage's time.

It would be a neat identity shift if the ability to "Chainspell" their elements a bit, even if it's behind a GCD, to keep it simple. the GCD automatically proc's Verfire/Verstone Ready, and allows the RDM to do something like:

Verthunder >> Verstone [Potency Bonus]

Verfire >> Veraero [Potency Bonus]

Idk, maybe getting a head of myself lol, but with all 6 elements at its disposal it would make for a neat thing to add in the future of the job. Regardless of the game not having a sort of "elemental weakness", outside Eureka; having a job that plays that mini-game would be neat.

Thank you for your reply =)

[PatronasCharm]

Since SE ended up adjusting MP Consumption from RDM Spells to help with the overall MP issues with the last patch, the idea I had went through minor adjustments. You can read it in the main post now. Come on SE, give RDM access to the entire elemental wheel!

[Archwizard]

If I may make a couple suggestions for the OP:

• Neither needs to be rank II spells. You could, for instance, name them Verflood and Verfreeze (which I think rolls off the tongue better than Verwater and Verblizzard). If they decide to add single-target variants later, great! If they don't, we won't have to wonder why we have Rank II before Rank I. Hell, you could even make a lore argument for why we have a flood spell when WHMs still don't have Water.
• Neither needs to be exclusive to AoE or single-target. Consider Afflatus Misery for WHMs, Deathflare for SMN or Foul for 70-79 BLMs -- all spells with high on-target potency and some peripheral damage, to be of use in both. All it needs is a means to be activated regardless of target quantity (be it a timer, or perhaps proc rates off both ST and AoE skills like Thundercloud), and a strong enough value to interrupt our current rotation to use.
• Now that our costs have been reduced, you don't necessarily need to have them refund MP either (and as I said before, I object highly to MP recovery being tied to RNG, and would much rather have any folded into a predictable part of the base rotation) -- but you could simply make them MP-free, which would still significantly reduce the upkeep cost of our rotation depending on activation rate (just look at WHM with its Lily heals). Unlike BLM, we face no penalty to our DPS for having MP left over!

[Bright-Flower]

I thought that verwater/verblizard would have been good aoes to go for but nope, they went for 'II' versions of existing spells to my disapointment. Would have been neat to get a caster with access to all six elements. Ninja is still the only job that has all six.

[Destati]

To my understanding (and anyone is free to correct me on this), when 2.0 dropped they gave BLM and WHM three of the six elements to focus on, with BLM getting Fire, Blizzard, and Thunder and WHM receiving Aero/Wind, Water, and Stone/Earth. In 1.0 this wasn't the case and both classes/jobs were able to use all six elements in gameplay.
Water certainly has the least presence of all the elements in the game and I can only think of two actions off the top of my head - NIN's Suiton and WHM's Fluid Aura, the latter of which has been steadily butchered over the years (it originally dealt damage and had a knockback and bind effect but as of ShB it only binds the target). I've always found it odd that WHM only focuses on 2 of the 3 elements that it was given whereas BLM utilizes all three of their own quite well.
To finally move away from my digression I would just really like to see more utilization of the water element overall for WHM and by that same token, RDM (after all Red Magic was adapted in part from White Magic). Please make it happen, SE!

[Jonnycbad]

Vercure is definitely water due to the blue aura it has while casting.

Vercure


Veraero


Fleche

^Look at the ice fragments and little ice crystals effects. It does physical unaspected damage but the animation is that of Ice (probably so it won't be affected by Embolden tbh), but like Aeolian Edge is physical but clearly is a Wind Animation. Same with Requiescat. Deals unaspected but it's a friggin lightning bolt.

I stanx by the notion that Vercure=Verwater, and Fleche=Verblizzard. They probably named them as such 1) because RDM still needed a Cure so they lumped Cure+Verwater into the same spell to make Vercure, and they didn't want the odd Verblizzard around so they made it an oGCD and gave it a Dueling/Fencing name for flavor. The fact that we learn 4 elemental spells in the first 15 levels of RDM and don't get any obvious Ice/Water spells all the way up to 80 is extra proof that Vercure/Fleche are Water/Ice respectively. The elements are already in existence as those 2 skills, no need to add Verwater/Verblizzard.

[kirby200]

Please SE, enough said

[Archwizard]

Vercure is definitely water due to the blue aura it has while casting.

Vercure

Except that Water Magic animations employed by enemies use a shade of aquamarine blue closer to that of our oGCD skills like Fleche.
The blue used by Vercure is shared by ASTs with their star-based healing.

Further, I've yet to see a solid counter-argument for why Fleche is supposedly an ice spell that deals no ice damage. "Not being affected by Embolden" hardly matters if the alternative is for it to deal 1% less damage to be magic damage, as an oGCD it's not like we wouldn't be able to squeeze it into an Embolden window. The alternative examples you mention of similar attacks are also used by Physical-based jobs who benefit from it being non-magic damage.

[PatronasCharm]

If I may make a couple suggestions for the OP:
[List][*]Neither needs to be rank II spells. You could, for instance, name them Verflood and Verfreeze (which I think rolls off the tongue better than Verwater and Verblizzard). If they decide to add single-target variants later, great! If they don't, we won't have to wonder why we have Rank II before Rank I. Hell, you could even make a lore argument for why we have a flood spell when WHMs still don't have Water.

That is a good suggestion, and yes, since Freeze is an AoE for BLM, that would be a good make it that rather than Verblizzard II. I'll adjust it and write your name down as the person who suggested it. That would give RDM access to Freeze / Blizzard and Water / Flood. Without really changing the RDM Dynamic, with Dualcast and it's constant working to build up White and Black mana.

So have a 25% chance for Veraero II to trigger: Verflood / 25% chance for Verthunder II to trigger Verfreeze, higher potency AoE that yields more White / Black Mana.

Thanks for the feedback, always appreciated =)

[Dyvid]

Should have made Verthunder II, Verblizzard and VerAero II, Verwater