Being denied the ability to ask questions in Feast is miserable

[NyneSwordz]

I've still yet to hear a solid argument against this simple suggestion;

Just make using chat a privilege that can be taken away.

Done. Toxic people get muted. Three strikes and muted for life. People who aren't dicks about it get to keep chat and presumably be helpful to their teammates. Bonus point; Since being a dick can result in losing access to chat, maybe people will be think twice before being a dick in chat, "I've been muted for 24 hours, maybe I'll curb my toxicity a bit", wishful thinking? Probably... Christ, this is the exact same system they use on these forums, which I'm likely about to incur for repeated use of the word "dick".

Thats fine imo.

[Gallus]

Did pugs for all of HW/SB Ex/Savage runs without a static. It's very close.

No it isn't, or else we'd have the chat disabled in savage, and I can assure you SE hasn't even considered it. People get more nervous and anxious when they lose against real people than when they can't beat an AI. From a scale of 1 to 10, a potentially rude person will bring levels 3 amount of toxicity when banging their head on the wall in a savage turn in a pug group. Put the same person in a PVP competitive environment in a scenario where they lose 250 elo and 7 matches in a row and I can assure you the level of toxicity will jump from 3 to 9.

Whatever though. I guess it's best to not even acknowledge that there is indeed a problem in the way people behave and react in PVP ranked scenarios and keep going along with it just fine. I couldn't care less because I no longer PVP and I haven't for a good amount of years, but I'd say it's in your best interest that this situation doesn't keep getting worse, or at this rate you'll be left with nothing but flamers because sane and polite people will keep leaving progressively.

[Gallus]

I've still yet to hear a solid argument against this simple suggestion;

Just make using chat a privilege that can be taken away.

Done. Toxic people get muted. Three strikes and muted for life. People who aren't dicks about it get to keep chat and presumably be helpful to their teammates. Bonus point; Since being a dick can result in losing access to chat, maybe people will be think twice before being a dick in chat, "I've been muted for 24 hours, maybe I'll curb my toxicity a bit", wishful thinking? Probably... Christ, this is the exact same system they use on these forums, which I'm likely about to incur for repeated use of the word "dick".

This isn't going to solve anything. We are all muted and people still come up with ways in order to harass others. You'll just give SE extra work for nothing.

[Nalien]

This isn't going to solve anything. We are all muted and people still come up with ways in order to harass others. You'll just give SE extra work for nothing.

Chocobo-shite.

Look at the title of this thread. New player, put off by the lack of chat because he is unable to simply communicate with his team, for better or worse. That is what SE gains out of such a change; Not putting new players off their "eSports level" PvP mode. Actually creating an environment that helps encourage people to play the damn mode. Yes there will be toxic pricks, but they'll get muted then we never hear from them again, leaving us with only the decent people who can give helpful advice and actually build up a sense of community in game.

Extra work for nothing... Christ... It's extra work to help ensure that this dumb game mode actually has a future that can grow a community, rather than this stagnant mess that just bleeds veterans and puts new players off... Not saying having chat back is a magical panacea that'll fix Feast of all its woes, but you really cannot have a successful game mode when you cripple players ability to communicate like this...

Simply muting the people who are toxic, as they're toxic, achieves the exact same scenario that we're currently in, if as people claim everyone in PvP is toxic. If there are good and helpful people about? They wont get muted. They'll be able to talk and help other players in Feast. That is a good thing, which should be encouraged. To act like everyone is toxic and they'd all be muted anyway if frankly an insult to such players, which is exactly what SE is doing by just blanket muting everyone instead of what I suggested.

It's not even extra work... Like you said, people just find ways around the mute to be toxic... How many people are still reported off Feast for post-game /tells, or mid-match quickchat/mark ignore spam? Muting everyone didn't fix the problem, it just moved it. Meanwhile people who could do a lot of good for the community are also muted because... Why exactly? Give me one good reason why someone who'd simply offer polite advice and help their team with a strategy should also be muted. Go ahead, I'll wait.

I couldn't care less because I no longer PVP and I haven't for a good amount of years, but I'd say it's in your best interest that this situation doesn't keep getting worse, or at this rate you'll be left with nothing but flamers because sane and polite people will keep leaving progressively.

This actually made me laugh, because it's the complete opposite... Having chat back wouldn't increase the amount of toxicity, nor would it really decrease it, but it would allow for some positivity to counterbalance the salt. Instead of having "nothing but flamers", you'd see the polite people retain their chat rights and actively use it, creating a more positive environment for new players... A situation like that is in the Feast communities best interest, not this bury-your-head-in-the-sand style solution... The blanket muting solved nothing, it just moved the problem under the rug while also silencing any potential good from the community.

[Nova_Rox]

No it isn't, or else we'd have the chat disabled in savage, and I can assure you SE hasn't even considered it. People get more nervous and anxious when they lose against real people than when they can't beat an AI. From a scale of 1 to 10, a potentially rude person will bring levels 3 amount of toxicity when banging their head on the wall in a savage turn in a pug group. Put the same person in a PVP competitive environment in a scenario where they lose 250 elo and 7 matches in a row and I can assure you the level of toxicity will jump from 3 to 9.

Whatever though. I guess it's best to not even acknowledge that there is indeed a problem in the way people behave and react in PVP ranked scenarios and keep going along with it just fine. I couldn't care less because I no longer PVP and I haven't for a good amount of years, but I'd say it's in your best interest that this situation doesn't keep getting worse, or at this rate you'll be left with nothing but flamers because sane and polite people will keep leaving progressively.

My guy do you just see what you want and cover your eyes and ears to the rest? Not once have I said PvP isn't toxic. You on the other hand make it seem like it's a PvP only issue and that's honestly the most mind numbingly stupid thing ever.

I'll say it again. PvP has toxic players. PvE has toxic players. They're the same players. Anything difficult (IE: PvP, Savage, extreme) will get people upset.

Stop with your random BS already because damn my guy you need to open your eyes.

YOU are the one not acknowledging what people here are saying.

I'll summarize my point of view to make it easy for you.

- PvP and PvE both have toxic people
- Add chat in post and pre game. Middle of the match is too hectic to type anyway.

[Commander_Justitia]

Why exactly? Give me one good reason why someone who'd simply offer polite advice and help their team with a strategy should also be muted. Go ahead, I'll wait.

One reason how absurd as it sounds is fairness. They think some players will have an advantage over others by telling their teammates strategies. This would rise the "skill" cap, when the mode tries its hardest to lower it.

[Nalien]

One reason how absurd as it sounds is fairness. They think some players will have an advantage over others by telling their teammates strategies. This would rise the "skill" cap, when the mode tries its hardest to lower it.

If that really is the reasoning SE holds, they seriously need to reconsider some things...

For starters, is the same not true of Quick Chat anyway? A player that uses the Countdown will have an advantage over someone who doesn't. A player that calls out Adrenaline Kits and Wolfs Heart is more likely to have the team secure them than the team that doesn't. Shouldn't Quick Chat then be removed to help lower the skill ceiling, if that's the idea? A new player has no idea of the "Hello" "Countdown" meta, and has no easy way of asking about such things, so what's really been achieved here? At least with chat there is a simpler avenue to close that skill cap but just asking about strategies. We still have a disparity in team strategies, but it's harder for new people to learn them... I'd say that's the opposite result to what was intended...

More importantly though, it's counter-productive. No doubt it lowered the skill ceiling, but why do you lower the skill ceiling to begin with? Almost always it's to make something more accessible, to help get new people playing it. A lack of chat doesn't achieve this, not really. It's easy to look at it and think "Oh, nobody is going to insult them when they lose, so they'll play more!", but that's really just looking at half the picture. By blanket muting everyone, you've also completely removed any encouragement to keep playing, no one can really offer any now after all. Personally, I don't remember a lot of the salt I experience in such modes, but the positive things people might say? Those are far more likely to stick with people, and far more likely to keep people playing. Robbing Feast of chat does not encourage new people to play the mode, I don't even think you can say it solves the toxicity that might deter them either, because that just changed form. People can still be toxic, but it is much harder to be helpful and encouraging, and that does not help make Feast more accessible. A sense of community is far more beneficial to keeping new players around, but it's very hard to have that when everyone is muted...

It's very much a case of throwing the baby out with the bath water...

[Gallus]

You are making a big deal out of the chat when in my opinion it isn't.

The only instance where you might use the chat is before the match begins. Given the frenetic and heated nature of this mode, typing in the middle of a battle to tell something very specific to one of your teammates will most likely make things worse, not better. You have direct macros with a sound to give specific instructions and you have a good bunch of them.

Chatting in the middle of a match was 99% of the times used in the past to bash or harass someone, not to bring constructive feedback (which should always be saved after the match finishes, you are not going to help anybody by writing a wall of text while the enemy team is rampaging you).

I never said removing the chat was the ultimate panacea to solve toxicity btw, all I suggested is that SE probably thought that, given the situation and how insanely rude people were, the removal of the chat was the lesser evil here.

[Nalien]

Care to point out where people are asking for chat in the middle of matches? All I've seen is people suggesting it at the start (to detail a strategy) and the end (to GG/etc.);

- Add chat in post and pre game. Middle of the match is too hectic to type anyway.

I'd rather have people playing mid-match than being keyboard warriors.

That said, I see no reason why we cannot have access to chat during the minutes wait at the start of matches... Whole point of that wait is to prepare, I imagine, strategy... Can't really do that when you cannot say a word to your team, though...

I never said removing the chat was the ultimate panacea to solve toxicity btw, all I suggested is that SE probably thought that, given the situation and how insanely rude people were, the removal of the chat was the lesser evil here.

I never said you were, I was merely preemptively dispelling the idea that I'm suggesting bringing chat back would "fix" Feast. It wouldn't, it would simply fix one aspect of Feast, albeit an important one IMO. The actual gameplay, matchmaking, and individual Job balance still need a hell of a lot more work than SE will ever put into it, but at least having chat back would make it far easier for players who do want to see Feast flourish. As I've said, SE threw the baby out with the bath water, you mute everyone and now it's an uphill battle to get helpful advice out to new players, such players turn away from the mode as a result. Just mute the people who are toxic and let the decent people carry on and support the Feast community. Literally the best of both worlds, and I'm still waiting on one good reason why this shouldn't be done.

[Gallus]

It could still create some problems, as repeatedly meeting the same person you think is causing your game losses could potentially create nasty conversations that could result in either some people downright afking before even the match starts or at the very least have a very negative predisposition towards even attempting to play seriously to win the match. And given the limited amount of people queueing, meeting the same players happens fairly often.

To be fair, this is already happening with ignore marks, but a storm of insults before the match starts would certainly add salt to the wound and only make things even worse.

Though I still sort of...agree...to a certain extent, that if SE was to put the chat back, what could possibly work best is to only have it unlocked before the match starts.

Something tells me that that's not going to happen though, as SE is very sensitive with people harassing others, and FFXIV's PVP history doesn't have a good record for being chill and well mannered.