Tank Mitigation vs Tank DPS.

[Kaedan]

If your planning on doing Endgame content, you have to use Direct Hit unless your doing it with a bunch of casual friends/static. Especially if you try to PUG Endgame content, they see you wearing Tenacity, expect to get mocked for having it in the first 5 minutes lol. Heck someone might leave instantly saying "Guys I'm out, we got a Tenacity tank here."

Kinda like Overwatch competitive, you pick a off meta hero and suddenly everyone complains xD.

Calling BS on this. There are plenty of people that clear Savage without any melds at all.

[RareItems]

Calling BS on this. There are plenty of people that clear Savage without any melds at all.

You can win a Team match in Overwatch with someone AFK too lol.

All those Potions, ilvl450 HQ foods and Tinctures, the gatherers are buying them all to help them gather aethersand better.

[Kaedan]

You can win a Team match in Overwatch with someone AFK too lol.

It directly refutes your false claim that you'll be kicked or ridiculed or people leave for Tenacity melds, seeing as hundreds of people are clearing without any melds at all.

[SturmChurro]

Please don't try to make anyone think that 1. you will need melds, especially Tenacity melds, to do standard (wall to wall) pulls in entry level content at level 80, 2. healers would have any easier time healing you in any content if you melded Tenacity, or that 3. anyone is melding anything for dungeon parses.

You definitely don't need any melds to do wall to wall. I just did Mt. Gulg from second boss all the way to third, and I barely have any melds besides damage melds. Not even hard if your healer is competent and adequately geared. Experts are also easy.

[RareItems]

It directly refutes your false claim that you'll be kicked or ridiculed or people leave for Tenacity melds, seeing as hundreds of people are clearing without any melds at all.

Someone skipped reading the last pages of this thread.

[Kaedan]

Someone skipped reading the last pages of this thread.

Soo... you don't have a valid argument, so instead you just reply with KBW nonsense?

[Barraind]

Sorry to break it to you, but Direct Hit is only good if your raiding

This is incorrect.

Hit gives you a % chance to deal 25% extra damage and can work in conjunction with a critical hit (a direct Crit). It is the best stat for non-warrior tanks in the .0 patches, is generally on par with crit in .2, and will likely be overttaken by crit in the .4 patch.

Warriors just always want crit.

200 Tenacity = 1% damage increase, 1% damage mitigation

This is incorrect.

Stat value intervals are re-figured every expansion, because exponential stat increases per ilvl will horrifically break things eventually. (WoW recently faced this because back in beta they went with 'More stats per ilvl is better, over the strong objection of the playtesters).

The current number is 33 per .1%

If you don't raid: Tenacity + Skillspeed/Crit/Det

This is incorrect.

Your priority is skillspeed to the right GCD (can you get a 2nd goring blade every fight or flight window? Can you get a 5th Fell cleave inside your IR? Thats where you stop).

Then its hit or crit depending on class or era. Then det.

Note, it CAN be in your interest to MELD for Tenacity, IF (and only if) you're overmelding. If 20 tenacity takes you to or just past a breakpoint, it will be a better investment than 20 of a non-crit-in-its-sweet-spot stat.

4% of defence mitigation bonus will have more impact on the team

This is incorrect.

4% mitigation from tenacity is worth, currently, in 450/460 gear... 4.8k eHP.

Tenacity is a really bad stat :|

4% on mitigation alone, and another 4% on healing bonus

Self and outgoing healing. Not incoming healing.

Back to Direct Hit VS Tenacity:

If a tank melded blablabla

https://ffxiv.ariyala.com/19Y02 <- Here's your tenacity best in slot.

https://ffxiv.ariyala.com/19Y0K <- Heres your non tenacity best using the same ilvl.


The tenacity build gains: 5.6% mitigation.
The avoid tenacity build gains: 3.6% damage, .8% crit and crit damage.

If you think getting less than 6% eHP is worth ~4.5% damage, I dunno what to tell you, but its not.

[Kaethra]

This discussion went on another few pages because of a video from 2017?

I think some of you bit the bait hard. Don't swallow the hook, don't do it!

[Kleeya]

What wee see in this kind of topic is why i think SE will end up removing the materia system in the future. Or at best keeping only one materia to use after merging them all into the "bigdpsmateria". Also i can see them getting rid of the "different pieces of the same ilvl can have different stats" system, and giving them all the same ones. Like we do not have role actions and main stat materias choices anymore.

Because in the end "choices" is just an illusion if we have to all choose the same most efficient thing dictated by some theorycrafter. Why waste developpment time on something like that ? Also why taking the risk of players becoming toxic with those daring to pick something else ?

It is also why we will never get nice things like skills trees with tons of different choices like in Grim Dawn or Path of Exile.

And people will complain of the game being more and more dumbed down, not even understanding that they are the cause of what they complain for. Like they did go straight from point A to point B in multiples paths instances, to have now dungeons only in straight lines. Or how they did go ham on damages only with their tanks, to have now the actual trivial aggro system.

[Nedkel]

First off your math is inherently flawed because all percentage mitigation is already INHERENTLY getting diminishing returns because of the fact that tanks are already getting 20% mitigation for free. I'll explain it real quick:

Suppose a tank buster is coming in for 1000 damage. Tank Mastery brings that down to 800, right? Now we pop Rampart, but because Rampart is only mitigating 20% of the remaining 800 damage, you're not getting the full value out of it. This is the reason why TBN is the single strongest button any tank has. Effective HP is a massive value since it doesn't hit diminishing returns ever.

Second, it's pretty hard confirmed that it doesn't increase healing from other sources, just your own. So in reality, to hit 4% bonus tankiness, you'd need to meld near... yipes... like 900 Tenacity or something crazy like that.

How is it inherently flawed even with 20% mitigation given all the time?

How are you going to know how tenacity will affect you without these 20% if you dont know how much damage you would take?
Sorry but 4% is still 4%.
Even if you take for example 10k damage, that being reduced to 8k, tenacity will decrease it to 7680, thats still making you 4% more tanky relatively to other tank with only 20% mitigation bonus and without this extra tenacity.
Even if you apply another 20% into the caluclation, making it 6400, if you give one tank tenacity 4% bonus he will still be 4% more tankier and will stand 4% longer relatively to tank without it.

About this healing bonus, its "proven" (no pic, no video, nothing) but the prove is really old, and in game description doesnt detail what kind of HP restored it really affects.