Please let PS4 parse our dps like pc

[Granyala]

You know, the real bad people here are those who were taking a dump on PS4 players and spreading misinformation. "Hurr the game barely runs, durr 20fps, 4k means I can play better"

One of this game's greatest feats is how incredible the game works on both platforms so seamlessly together. That should be appreciated rather than knocking one platform down a peg. PS4 gamers can outplay PC just as PC can outplay PS4. Platform will never be a substitute for player skill.

Completely agreed.

Also I call BS on the claim that FPS beyond 60 make much of a difference considering the internet latency and most importantly SE's crappy netcode latency are several orders of magnitude higher than frame latency of the screen. I've played WoW with some pretty crappy FPS. And by crappy I mean REALLY CRAPPY like 5 FPS and lower.
I still managed to give a decent performance and kill the boss (though it certainly wasn't fun). PS4 is nowhere near that bad.

[Demetri_Delethorn]

Completely agreed.

Also I call BS on the claim that FPS beyond 60 make much of a difference considering the internet latency and most importantly SE's crappy netcode latency are several orders of magnitude higher than frame latency of the screen. I've played WoW with some pretty crappy FPS. And by crappy I mean REALLY CRAPPY like 5 FPS and lower.
I still managed to give a decent performance and kill the boss (though it certainly wasn't fun). PS4 is nowhere near that bad.

Especially if you dole out for a Pro. PS5 should handle things even better, of course. Anywhere else on the internet talking about this game, I see latency being spoken of as a hindering factor in gameplay (which actually makes sense). I only see the FPS trolls around these lawless parts.

[Komarimono]

Completely agreed.

Also I call BS on the claim that FPS beyond 60 make much of a difference considering the internet latency and most importantly SE's crappy netcode latency are several orders of magnitude higher than frame latency of the screen. I've played WoW with some pretty crappy FPS. And by crappy I mean REALLY CRAPPY like 5 FPS and lower.
I still managed to give a decent performance and kill the boss (though it certainly wasn't fun). PS4 is nowhere near that bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tV8P6T5tTYs

It's a myth that we don't notice or feel a difference in FPS. If FPS didn't matter, even consoles wouldn't be trying to at least hit 60.

People saying they don't get a potential boost to performance from better hardware and FPS etc, are woefully ignorant. Linus has covered it many times, this being his most recent and he is quite reputable as he tests and shows. There's also several scientific studies, showing the eye isn't limited to a certain FPS. Remember when people said there was no difference between 30 and 60 FPS? Ya, it's that all over again, and they were wrong last time too.

I'm not saying console is unplayable though, far from it. I was just clarifying that on a decent PC you have much much more potential to see and respond to things far faster then someone running a lower FPS, and that is all I've ever said.

But alas, not part of this threads topic, but felt it needed to be cleared up.

As for parsers, I still stand they have high benefits that outweigh the cons. But this is my opinion at the least from raiding in other games. I don't feel they are elitist, but have seen them weed out those who cannot perform, and also check how encounters played out mathematically to see where the group went wrong.

[Granyala]

Because games are played by the under age (and not only under age) kids that could and will use it against other people to harrass them over their poor performance, like it does happen in WoW.
This is one of the reasons, the other one is SE made this game casual friendly.

There is a simple solution to that: do not deliver a poor performance. Come on, this is a video game. It's not exactly rocket science.
You want to do savage/Ex, you need to have the proper numbers to kill them anyway.

As for dungeons: it's super rare that people even bother to look at parses b/c stuff dies anyway.

It's a myth that we don't notice or feel a difference in FPS. If FPS didn't matter, even consoles wouldn't be trying to at least hit 60.

I never stated that you do not feel the difference. I certainly can't play any game below 60FPS anymore, going into places like Eulmore where 60FPS is virtually impossible due to single threaded coding limitations annoys me enough as it is.

What I am arguing against is that it has a profound impact on a players output. That is simply not true. This is an MMO with a long GCD not a twitchy shooter. We generally only perform one action every few seconds.

There is more to a community than optimization guides, people telling you to get gud, or parser help.
Don't you get that?
That's not what an MMORPG is about.
That's the exact kind of thinking that has ruined the genre.

Uuh apart from role play (which I happen to like but is super rare to actually encounter) and maybe crafting/market what else is there left to form a community about?
Questing? Freeloot dungeons (deliberately neutered so "speshil snowflakes" can clear them too)?

No, the majority of the time spent is in endgame and the majority of community interactions revolve around how to defeat tough bosses.
You don't need a "community" in order to tackle FFs 24man raids. Randomly thrown together groups clearing them with ease proves that.

I feel no pang of guilt at all have a AMD 2990WX or a RTX 2080Ti. The setup performs better per cost vs a Workstation Setup that uses a Quadro for my work use. It was only a 2-3 months of saving up at the time anyway, so not that big a deal honestly.

Dang I'd love to have your disposable income.
A 2080Ti would eat away a years worth of saving for me. :X

[Nedkel]

There is a simple solution to that: do not deliver a poor performance. Come on, this is a video game. It's not exactly rocket science.
You want to do savage/Ex, you need to have the proper numbers to kill them anyway.

As for dungeons: it's super rare that people even bother to look at parses b/c stuff dies anyway.

And what if you enter into new content undergeared, with new skillset, and you dont have time to play the game and start doing new stuff a week or few after release? Should you still "get gut or get out"? You basically spoiled your logs for doing so, you will have to wait for the next patch for it to reset and not being judged over your "poor performance".

Thats why there is no parses in this game.

Tell about dungeons, in WoW i was being kicked a lot for my "poor performance", and there are countless of cases where it is a thing in WoW, people look at logs of someone often decide who they want in the team. We are still talking about normalizing parses as a official tool in this game, just look at games where it is a thing a compare it to FFXIV, its an earth and sky difference.

[Granyala]

And what if you enter into new content undergeared, with new skillset, and you dont have time to play the game and start doing new stuff a week or few after release? Should you still "get gut or get out"? You basically spoiled your logs for doing so, you will have to wait for the next patch for it to reset and not being judged over your "poor performance".

Thats why there is no parses in this game.

Again PuGs do not use parses that way. If you encounter a PuG that does, you already know enough NOT to join that group. Same goes for unrealistic ilvl requirements.

Parses are used if you apply for a static and these people know how to read them. They would see that it was week 1, they would know the gear was crap and the encounter new. No one expects 95%ile performance in such a setting.

I've never encountered a PuG in WoW that looked at my parses. They typically want proof of kill in combination with item level.

It's not an "earth and sky" difference I've played both games for many years and all you "no-parse" people are making a mountain out of an anthill.

BTW: in this glorious FF-XIV community I got kicked from a dungeon as a lv 27 AST for not using cards (cards became available at 30 at the time) and I also got kicked for doing too much DPS as a healer b/c the tank couldn't be arsed to AoE (despite me healing against the noodle mob hits w/o issue).

Go figure, idiots will be idiots. Parser or no parser.

[Nedkel]

Again PuGs do not use parses that way. If you encounter a PuG that does, you already know enough NOT to join that group. Same goes for unrealistic ilvl requirements.

Parses are used if you apply for a static and these people know how to read them. They would see that it was week 1, they would know the gear was crap and the encounter new. No one expects 95%ile performance in such a setting.

I've never encountered a PuG in WoW that looked at my parses. They typically want proof of kill in combination with item level.

It's not an "earth and sky" difference I've played both games for many years and all you "no-parse" people are making a mountain out of an anthill.

BTW: in this glorious FF-XIV community I got kicked from a dungeon as a lv 27 AST for not using cards (cards became available at 30 at the time) and I also got kicked for doing too much DPS as a healer b/c the tank couldn't be arsed to AoE (despite me healing against the noodle mob hits w/o issue).

Go figure, idiots will be idiots. Parser or no parser.

Parses and logs from it are used for all kind of reasons, a ton of people use them to tell the difference between players and themselves.
It does show much much more and give way more information than you could ever figure it out from the straight out observation, and this is a fact otherwise it wouldnt be used.
Shows numbers and often a performance of each individual relative to the average, depending on the addon.

It does affect players culture and it does make it more aggressive and less tolerant, there are countless amount of cases where people get kicked because parser shown someone number. It encourages the "go go" mentality, no one in WoW wants to socialize anymore, because they sweet logs will get lagged if they will not do the run fast enough. I wonder why people playing wow are so positive for classic wow and it encouraging socialising with others, its because they dont have it anymore in their current wow version, everything is a number and percent a rats race towards better performance, where everyone is frustrated and angry, this is how that game is right now.

Parses are just a tool, but people do not deserve to have it, thats all.

[Granyala]

It does affect players culture and it does make it more aggressive and less tolerant, there are countless amount of cases where people get kicked because parser shown someone number.

It encourages the "go go" mentality, no one in WoW wants to socialize anymore, because they sweet logs will get lagged if they will not do the run fast enough.

GOOD. This community could use a little more pressure.
Not sure about you but I consider it quite impolite to join group content and perform below the threshold that is needed in order to down the content (first timers excluded of course).

Bollocks. No one ever takes the time to socialize DURING A FIGHT. No one. Parsers do not care about what happens in between fights, you can have hours of discussions and it wouldn't record a thing. WoWs "gogogo" mentality was just as prevalent back in TBC in the year of 2007 when I started the game as it is now (though it was frowned upon). Most people simply hate to stand around and wait if it isn't necessary for tactical purposes.

These days, the design on M+ encourages races against the clock (a design choice I disagree with b/c I hate races against time), so naturally that spills over into non timed content once people get used to running things that way. Yes, I can see that this would make it harder for newbies to get in but that is not the fault of the parsing addons. We had these back in Vanilla and we WILL have them in classic WoW. They have no impact whatsoever on peoples willingness to socialize. Oo

the content is just an obstacle for the reward, and nothing is shiny or interesting enough to get people to slow down.
People aren't as fixated on numbers as they are on speed, and high numbers = more speed.

Very true. That feeling also drove me away. Blizzard doesn't seem to have any interest in making the content fun in itself (Mythic raids excluded).
They rather pump out more rewards if it is underutilized. ._.

[HWalsh]

Uuh apart from role play (which I happen to like but is super rare to actually encounter) and maybe crafting/market what else is there left to form a community about?
Questing? Freeloot dungeons (deliberately neutered so "speshil snowflakes" can clear them too)?

No, the majority of the time spent is in endgame and the majority of community interactions revolve around how to defeat tough bosses.
You don't need a "community" in order to tackle FFs 24man raids. Randomly thrown together groups clearing them with ease proves that.

Community is about community.

Yes, roleplaying is a key element to an MMORPG, but community doesn't need to be about dur hur "Optimization" and "Raiding."

Back in the day we had events, we had almost an extended family

One event that we used to do in DAOC was the Market Day, when crafters would gather and, for free, churn out gear and items. No "give me 2,000,000 gil."

We could organize that here, gatherers could gather a bunch of mats, crafters could craft en masse, we could get to know each other.

We could organize a mass fate clear across the server to help especially low level characters who, more often than not, have to tack these things alone.

We could encourage open world roleplay by (gasp) roleplaying.

Heck, we could even organize events to promote charities or social awareness.

There are TONS of things a community can do other than raid and optimize.

[Granyala]

Community is about community.
Yes, roleplaying is a key element to an MMORPG, but community doesn't need to be about dur hur "Optimization" and "Raiding."
Back in the day we had events, we had almost an extended family
One event that we used to do in DAOC was the Market Day, when crafters would gather and, for free, churn out gear and items. No "give me 2,000,000 gil."
We could organize that here, gatherers could gather a bunch of mats, crafters could craft en masse, we could get to know each other.
We could organize a mass fate clear across the server to help especially low level characters who, more often than not, have to tack these things alone.
We could encourage open world roleplay by (gasp) roleplaying.
Heck, we could even organize events to promote charities or social awareness.
There are TONS of things a community can do other than raid and optimize.

I think in order for sth like that to form, the game must force the players in some way.
RPGs of eld were often quite solo unfriendly. Sure, you could start out alone but quickly ended up at a point where you needed other players. Also there were no automated buttons that grouped you up and tossed you into the content. You actually had to talk to people to make it happen. I remember spending HOURS in search for a tank in order to do a low level dungeon back in TBC WoW. If you misbehaved and had a rep, no one would invite you etc.
Part of that was cool (server community, you knew people). another part of that was super annoying (no quick "I'm in a mood for a dungeon run").

Parsers are not the limiting factor here. The game being designed as a solo activity up until you reach the big raids is.
Why bother talking to anyone if you can do everything solo? Endgame optimization and strategy is basically the only thing left where you sort of need the input of others in order to succeed and that's why you see communities for that aspect.