Square Enix Team Hates NIN Players.

[TheGrimace]

We've got a Letter from the Producer Live on August 7. I'm seeing lots of posts on the DPS forum, Reddit, and elsewhere, so I imagine they realize that players are upset by the change. My hope is that they will atleast try to address our concerns during the Live Letter. If they do not, that's going to show a serious disconnect that will need to be remedied.

It actually makes me glad to see so many people fighting for Ninja's sake. The longer people continue to do this and the louder they are, the more likely we are to get a response. The playerbase may not have liked their replies to the genderlocking issues or the handling of healers in Shadowbringers, but they have done what they can to atleast alleviate concerns where they saw them. My hope is for them to do the same with Ninja, atleast for some peace of mind.

[24daking]

If you look at actual rdps parses, ninja is actually higher than ranged in some fight, and they were taken in a lot of speekdill comp (half of them?) So they arent that weak, despite their pdps looking weak.

Why are we comparing ninjas to ranged dps they are a melee dps not a ranged compare them to their role

[24daking]

I must wonder how it feels to actually be this ignorant. First of all, while Trick Attack is indeed the best solo buff in the game, it varies wildly depending on your group skill levels and composition. In other words, in most groups, Trick Attack is but a mediocre buff when you combine it with most statics. But this was still okay in Stormblood because Ninjas could bring pretty decent DPS on their own. To demonstrate this with an example.

In almost every pug in Stormblood, it would be better for me to go Monk or Samurai on an equal skill level. This was simply because EVERY party I was in, did not utilize timely trick attacks at all and we were talking about 500 DPS raid contribution here. Samurai and Monk, on the same level of play, bring more overall Raid DPS than Ninja in these scenarios. This is why Ninja is a vastly overrated job, puppeted by silly willy people who have no idea what they are talking about.
Now, we are in Shadowbringers and we still have Trick Attack. The only difference is that our DPS now is so absurdly low, that even in the BEST groups making use of Trick Attack, on an equal skill level, Ninja will fall 500-1k DPS behind Monk and Samurai. That's problematic. Because not only is Ninja the most difficult melee job in the game, and not only is Trick Attack the most difficult thing to optimize properly in the game (other raid buffs synergising with it), it will never be enough.

I wish you would stop making stupid remarks and let the debate be handled by people who actually have an idea what they are talking about. Ninja does need another buff.

Best comment I’ve seen here so far thank you I’ve been trying to prove this point to people since stormsblood when drg was literally the only job with the op utility that locked them into every party and nin Sam and monk were interchangeable yet everybody was just on the “trick attack is op” hype train smh. I’m so glad fflogs added rdps into there system now so ignorant people can finally see for themselves this point your just made!

[IBLazORI]

We've got a Letter from the Producer Live on August 7. I'm seeing lots of posts on the DPS forum, Reddit, and elsewhere, so I imagine they realize that players are upset by the change. My hope is that they will atleast try to address our concerns during the Live Letter. If they do not, that's going to show a serious disconnect that will need to be remedied.

It actually makes me glad to see so many people fighting for Ninja's sake. The longer people continue to do this and the louder they are, the more likely we are to get a response. The playerbase may not have liked their replies to the genderlocking issues or the handling of healers in Shadowbringers, but they have done what they can to atleast alleviate concerns where they saw them. My hope is for them to do the same with Ninja, atleast for some peace of mind.

Not hopeful for the live letter. They are gonna filter through all the questions and choose the easy ones. Or answer ones that they already have an answer for.
If they even choose one of our DPS issues, it will probably be a generic "will look into it"

[TcomJ]

For Innocence EX, BRD's rDPS was only 50~70 behind MCH... And it was actually quite represented in speedkills for both.

FFLogs ranks via rDPS now. Not pDPS.


SAM getting Hagakure back as Sen management (which may or may not directly affect their damage due to it only returning 5 Kenki per Sen versus the 20 it gave in SB) is a little bit different than reincorporating Foe's as a new off-global. They would have to likely have to actively redesign the skill, where as Hagakure is just less Kenki return and on a shorter recast - it functions virtually the same as it did in SB. And while I think they could have addressed the gauge sound change, it's not like BRD is actively hurting right now in terms of what it does and what it can bring.

We'll see how BRD sits when Eden clears and speedkills start happening, but podcasts were already listing it as the better prog choice of the physical ranged. The physical ranged are one of the few roles that are relatively close to one another in rDPS balance, with DNC being only ~300 or so behind MCH, and BRD being basically neck-n-neck with it. So all you're doing is doomsaying and complaining with very little numerical basis right now (and even high-jacking a thread about NIN to do so).

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/29#
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/29#dpstype=pdps


uhuh. DNC took our job, all those raid buffs go to DNC from Bard clearly. There is not disputing this. You just change to DNC main so have fun there ofc you are going to suck up to it.


DNC would have no place? Like SE cares when they add it and think homogenization is a good idea in an RPG game. Even Ragnarok didn't need to do that.

All that aDPS, put onto one ability Battle Voice...wow so Bard there. Oh look, rDPS is just the same as BRD.

Wait to see pDPS and will see how much do we really "buff" the party.
Just wow.

[Mahoukenshi]

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/29#
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/29#dpstype=pdps


uhuh. DNC took our job, all those raid buffs go to DNC from Bard clearly. There is not disputing this. You just change to DNC main so have fun there ofc you are going to suck up to it.


DNC would have no place? Like SE cares when they add it and think homogenization is a good idea in an RPG game. Even Ragnarok didn't need to do that.

This topic is about NIN, not about another of your self-pity attempts.

[24daking]

NIN "overpowered"? FAR from that. I played it now since i started and i was always aware its not THE best DPS of the game but had its uses and was fun to play but it was never overpowered. I RARELY got best dps in a party, only when i played stellar and the Sams and blms did absolutely aweful. Besides that ive ALWAYS been 3-4th place.
It didnt bother me as i could still pull ahead and work around it beeing useful with other buffs ect.

Now in Shadowbringers? Im useless, i do no damage, be it single or multitarget. I really feel like im just beeing brought along to Pad other peoples ego but in the end we take longer as if they just kick me and get another BLM or ANYTHING for that matter.

Trick attack is so highly overrated just because 1-3% of the entire playerbase know how to use it well and the entire rest of Nin players can go die in a trashfire. Thats how i feel ninja is this expansion. No utility besides that goddamn "OP" Trick attack and besides that a MYRIAD of Issues surrounding everything from mechanics to clipping which just dont feel rewarding at all to play.
If it just feels like youre there to get carried it feels like shit playing this class.

If anyone takes the time to look at the raid dps each job gives now on fflog they would notice that ninja trick attack gives around 1000 raid dps at its highest end that’s with a full party of 90 percentile players and above lining up cooldowns to take the most advantage out of the buff. In your average party not optimized its use you’ll see around 600-800 rdps from it btw.

Ok now looks at drgs who are bringing around 500 rdps consistently. you mean to tell me that that 500 rdps difference is that op? when dragoon’s are out dpsing ninjas personally by 1000-3000 like be real.

Ok let’s say that is the case and you think 500 raid dps difference equates to 1000-3000 personal dps difference, if that’s the case then tell me why ninja are only ahead of dancers by around 500-800 dps when dancers raid dps is anywhere from 1200 on the low end up to 1700 with an optimized party?

Nothing is adding up with Ninja people are just 2 ignorant to admit it.

[24daking]

I've leveled EVERY JOB there is Played Ninja Back from HW release off and on till now But nope dont have a clue what I'm talking about. I don't know what your experience is but I'd say it's roughly the exact same as mine.That said I will conceed the point with PuGs I completely forgot to even consider them into the equation.I also wouldn't use monk as your guide point when you make the claim you need a buff Monk is meant to do high yield damage. Ninja will never be allowed to get close to monk Samurai I'll give you that one Sam and NIN should be neck and neck.

I would however make a few more suggestions and actually listen to them because otherwise not one whit of any of the feedbacks going to be looked over. Have OP make a new better titled thread.

1. It makes it seem as if its a bunch of trivial grade school whinging and alot of it is
2. Get rid of the whingy it feels like posts feelings have nothing to do with it.
3. get rid of the snarky posts mine included.
4. Consolidate everything into a data format and explain the proposed Buffs required
5.Explain why Trick Attack should NOT Factor into the battle teams decisions on Ninjas needing Buffed.
6. Put up a question on Ninja into the Q&A (Remember they said Ask job related questions and convey the issues after 5.05 dropped)
7.Stop putting solid feedback into Sensationalist Titled threads they will always be ignored by Devs

This is the most ignorant post I’ve ever seen lol

[kidalutz]

This is the most ignorant post I’ve ever seen lol

and yet the 7 things listed are nonetheless the only way that your feedback will be paid attention to.

I have a hard time putting my thoughts into words that most people can understand when I'm trying to get what I'm trying to say across.

However the irony that what I said being the most ignorant post you've ever seen when you've singularly wrote the most ignorant response to it is just hilarious to me.

[24daking]

and yet the 7 things listed are nonetheless the only way that your feedback will be paid attention to.

I have a hard time putting my thoughts into words that most people can understand when I'm trying to get what I'm trying to say across.

However the irony that what I said being the most ignorant post you've ever seen when you've singularly wrote the most ignorant response to it is just hilarious to me.

You know what would help our concerns be heard and addressed by the devs? Not having players come into a thread that people that actually investing time into the class in question are passionate for telling them not to put emotion behind a job they put years into caring about and optimizing. So much time it’s to a point that even if their thoughts have emotion behind them they still have way more understanding as to what the class needs then someone who plays the job on and off and says it’s fine as is.