Square Enix Team Hates NIN Players.

[Starflake]

Your explanation tells me that you really havent even tried to learn your own class goad was next to useless 90% of the time before stormblood was even in its quarterway patch dripping blades was baked into the kit ages ago, you lost the slashing debuff yeah I'll agree that is a hit. but you still kept trick attack which in 8 man is probably one of the best abilities. Now if you had said Ninja sucks in 4 man I would have agreed with that 100% but in the content where it counts 8 man and upcoming 24 Man ninja is absolutely a job that anyone would be glad to have with them.
The fact that you expected they would raise the damage output to much higher levels is your own wishful thinking and not very good wishful thinking because they absolutely wont do that unless until they plan on removing trick attack, because then ninja will have nothing to bring to the table and will become a selfish DPS. I should fair hope that rather than major buffs that you guys ask for a trick attack cool down reduction and time up increase to 20 seconds. Maybe a slow baked into on of your damage options yeah it might seem like forever but for the love of the twelve ninja has one of the most fun series of rotations in the game.

I must wonder how it feels to actually be this ignorant. First of all, while Trick Attack is indeed the best solo buff in the game, it varies wildly depending on your group skill levels and composition. In other words, in most groups, Trick Attack is but a mediocre buff when you combine it with most statics. But this was still okay in Stormblood because Ninjas could bring pretty decent DPS on their own. To demonstrate this with an example.

In almost every pug in Stormblood, it would be better for me to go Monk or Samurai on an equal skill level. This was simply because EVERY party I was in, did not utilize timely trick attacks at all and we were talking about 500 DPS raid contribution here. Samurai and Monk, on the same level of play, bring more overall Raid DPS than Ninja in these scenarios. This is why Ninja is a vastly overrated job, puppeted by silly willy people who have no idea what they are talking about.
Now, we are in Shadowbringers and we still have Trick Attack. The only difference is that our DPS now is so absurdly low, that even in the BEST groups making use of Trick Attack, on an equal skill level, Ninja will fall 500-1k DPS behind Monk and Samurai. That's problematic. Because not only is Ninja the most difficult melee job in the game, and not only is Trick Attack the most difficult thing to optimize properly in the game (other raid buffs synergising with it), it will never be enough.

I wish you would stop making stupid remarks and let the debate be handled by people who actually have an idea what they are talking about. Ninja does need another buff.

[Gallus]

Look at the bright side. Nin has been overpowered since it was released. It's only shit now. SMN has been shit every expansion XD.

[Tenryou]

Look at the bright side. Nin has been overpowered since it was released. It's only shit now. SMN has been shit every expansion XD.

i dont know if i agree with this but i missed all of Stormblood and can't speak for it. but as for 2.4 to 3.4, It was really strong on release had some bugs got fixed still felt good then in 3.0 it was like "Congrats you are now melee support slave" and became like the the Cinderella of the party. Everyone going GOAD ME GOAD ME NINJA LB NINJA LB NINJA STEP OFF BOSS FOR MECHANIC NINJA SHADEWALKER ME SO I CAN TANK DPS. Came back for Sole for ninja because most of that was gone(story too SHB is dam good) but this ninja is like a neglected child left in a hot car waiting on some by stander to save it. love the class but it needs some help and people need to stop thinking trick attack is some miracle buff cause it for sure aint.

[RikuGx]

Look at the bright side. Nin has been overpowered since it was released. It's only shit now. SMN has been shit every expansion XD.

NIN "overpowered"? FAR from that. I played it now since i started and i was always aware its not THE best DPS of the game but had its uses and was fun to play but it was never overpowered. I RARELY got best dps in a party, only when i played stellar and the Sams and blms did absolutely aweful. Besides that ive ALWAYS been 3-4th place.
It didnt bother me as i could still pull ahead and work around it beeing useful with other buffs ect.

Now in Shadowbringers? Im useless, i do no damage, be it single or multitarget. I really feel like im just beeing brought along to Pad other peoples ego but in the end we take longer as if they just kick me and get another BLM or ANYTHING for that matter.

Trick attack is so highly overrated just because 1-3% of the entire playerbase know how to use it well and the entire rest of Nin players can go die in a trashfire. Thats how i feel ninja is this expansion. No utility besides that goddamn "OP" Trick attack and besides that a MYRIAD of Issues surrounding everything from mechanics to clipping which just dont feel rewarding at all to play.
If it just feels like youre there to get carried it feels like shit playing this class.

[kidalutz]

I must wonder how it feels to actually be this ignorant. First of all, while Trick Attack is indeed the best solo buff in the game, it varies wildly depending on your group skill levels and composition. In other words, in most groups, Trick Attack is but a mediocre buff when you combine it with most statics. But this was still okay in Stormblood because Ninjas could bring pretty decent DPS on their own. To demonstrate this with an example.

In almost every pug in Stormblood, it would be better for me to go Monk or Samurai on an equal skill level. This was simply because EVERY party I was in, did not utilize timely trick attacks at all and we were talking about 500 DPS raid contribution here. Samurai and Monk, on the same level of play, bring more overall Raid DPS than Ninja in these scenarios. This is why Ninja is a vastly overrated job, puppeted by silly willy people who have no idea what they are talking about.
Now, we are in Shadowbringers and we still have Trick Attack. The only difference is that our DPS now is so absurdly low, that even in the BEST groups making use of Trick Attack, on an equal skill level, Ninja will fall 500-1k DPS behind Monk and Samurai. That's problematic. Because not only is Ninja the most difficult melee job in the game, and not only is Trick Attack the most difficult thing to optimize properly in the game (other raid buffs synergising with it), it will never be enough.

I wish you would stop making stupid remarks and let the debate be handled by people who actually have an idea what they are talking about. Ninja does need another buff.

I've leveled EVERY JOB there is Played Ninja Back from HW release off and on till now But nope dont have a clue what I'm talking about. I don't know what your experience is but I'd say it's roughly the exact same as mine.That said I will conceed the point with PuGs I completely forgot to even consider them into the equation.I also wouldn't use monk as your guide point when you make the claim you need a buff Monk is meant to do high yield damage. Ninja will never be allowed to get close to monk Samurai I'll give you that one Sam and NIN should be neck and neck.

I would however make a few more suggestions and actually listen to them because otherwise not one whit of any of the feedbacks going to be looked over. Have OP make a new better titled thread.

1. It makes it seem as if its a bunch of trivial grade school whinging and alot of it is
2. Get rid of the whingy it feels like posts feelings have nothing to do with it.
3. get rid of the snarky posts mine included.
4. Consolidate everything into a data format and explain the proposed Buffs required
5.Explain why Trick Attack should NOT Factor into the battle teams decisions on Ninjas needing Buffed.
6. Put up a question on Ninja into the Q&A (Remember they said Ask job related questions and convey the issues after 5.05 dropped)
7.Stop putting solid feedback into Sensationalist Titled threads they will always be ignored by Devs

[Starflake]

I've leveled EVERY JOB there is Played Ninja Back from HW release off and on till now But nope dont have a clue what I'm talking about. I don't know what your experience is but I'd say it's roughly the exact same as mine.That said I will conceed the point with PuGs I completely forgot to even consider them into the equation.I also wouldn't use monk as your guide point when you make the claim you need a buff Monk is meant to do high yield damage. Ninja will never be allowed to get close to monk Samurai I'll give you that one Sam and NIN should be neck and neck.

I would however make a few more suggestions and actually listen to them because otherwise not one whit of any of the feedbacks going to be looked over. Have OP make a new better titled thread.

1. It makes it seem as if its a bunch of trivial grade school whinging and alot of it is
2. Get rid of the whingy it feels like posts feelings have nothing to do with it.
3. get rid of the snarky posts mine included.
4. Consolidate everything into a data format and explain the proposed Buffs required
5.Explain why Trick Attack should NOT Factor into the battle teams decisions on Ninjas needing Buffed.
6. Put up a question on Ninja into the Q&A (Remember they said Ask job related questions and convey the issues after 5.05 dropped)
7.Stop putting solid feedback into Sensationalist Titled threads they will always be ignored by Devs

You indeed do not having a clue what you are talking about, regardless of you leveling all your classes, that does not mean you know the numbers. You also apparently have some trouble reading what I am actually saying. Maybe you do not know the difference between pDPS and rDPS. Nobody is claiming that Ninja's personal DPS should be on par with Monk's DPS. The rDPS should be roughly equal between the two. Meaning the personal damage you bring plus the raid Ulility you bring cominbed should even out in the end. It doesn't.
Ninja shouldn't be close to samurai either, Samurai should be doing more personal DPS than monk as it has no party utility, Monk still has Brotherhood.

[IBLazORI]

Ninja requires a lot more effort than other jobs, has highest APM than other jobs. And gives the lowest pDPS? Not sure what those are saying that ninja is fine because of trick attack.
The average nin player won't be able to fully capitalize the jobs abilities. The opener alone can be scary.

Suiton > spinning > meisui +dream > shadowfang > TCJ > spinning > trick + bunshin > gust >kassatsu + assasinate > aeolian > hyosho + kassatsu > spining >mug + bhavackra > shadowfang. (may have some errors, going off memory and not muscle memory)

During 7 GCDS we have to press a total of 28-32 buttons. Not including all the clipping if you have terrible ping.

[RikuGx]

This is the current rota if you wanna be good but still the worst of the party =P

[VirusChris]

God... I leveled all classes, but doesn't make me a master of them. I love Ninja because it was a Dual-Wielding class and that's my preferred fighting style and honestly I noticed how poor NIN's damage output was in ShB. I felt like I was taking so long to deal any damage at all. Even my lv75 DRK at the time had DPS that was close to my i430 lv80 NIN and a Tank should NOT be able to get that close in damage to a DPS like that.

Honestly the Dripping Blades lost hit NIN really hard. Perhaps give it back at 10% instead of 20% if they're worried of it outperforming the other DPS class and see what it goes from there.

At this point I'm OK with of removing Mudra and having the Ninjutsu be their own weaponskill. Maybe tie it to the Ninka so you have to build up the resources to do it and have Kassatsu be a freebie that powers up the moves as it does. To save time because of the oGCD. No more clipping... gods the lag will miss up at times and I have to double back if I hit the right button and now the second button so I don't get bunny.

I love NIN, it's fun, it uses Dual Swords, but it has so many issues with it that don't make it that smooth which is why I don't mind the other classes that much and are instant.

There's just too much to follow. Heck I would say get rid of Trick Attack if it's meant to be focused around NIN. Make the kit work with it instead of an offhand thing. I don't care if NIN isn't the strongest DPS in the game, I want it to be fun and rewarding with decent personal DPS.

[kidalutz]

You indeed do not having a clue what you are talking about, regardless of you leveling all your classes, that does not mean you know the numbers. You also apparently have some trouble reading what I am actually saying. Maybe you do not know the difference between pDPS and rDPS. Nobody is claiming that Ninja's personal DPS should be on par with Monk's DPS. The rDPS should be roughly equal between the two. Meaning the personal damage you bring plus the raid Ulility you bring cominbed should even out in the end. It doesn't.
Ninja shouldn't be close to samurai either, Samurai should be doing more personal DPS than monk as it has no party utility, Monk still has Brotherhood.

English is a third language admittedly. I'm getting what you're saying now.