Reminder that war is still good.

[Rakshazi]

Simple, because WAR has the lowest possible DPS cieling of all the tank jobs, has the lowest APM of all the tank jobs, benifits the least from most of the party wide buffs with basically no positive interactions with any job anymore, has the worst OT mitigation of all the tanks. Its not BIAS its hard facts baised off of numbers. Its mitigation is also now the shortest of all the jobs in terms of duration now as well.

Ehm... lolwut? Lowest DPS? Proves, please. Because it's bullsh*t. Especialy with how "Infuriate" and the relative skills works.
Lowest APM - is bad, agree, but in the same time it makes the job incredibly easy to play even if you never played tanks before.
Party wide buffs? Namely? Please insert your answer with particular numbers here and, pray tell, what he doesn't benefit from. More than that all he needs is in his kit: 100% crit, 2 healing abilityes (one of them also increasing the amount of healing recieved) + 1 standart tanking healing skill in the combo.
No interactions with other party members? Have you ever hear or used the "Shake it off" skill?
OT mitigation? He was NEVER the one to mitagate damage, the job was basicaly the pounds of beef with the axe, that goes trough the enemies and HEALS (by self, let me mind you) the damage it takes instead of mitigation. And with that being said he has "Raw intuition" - very short CD 20% mitigation from ALL sources, "Rampart" - standart tanking mitigation for 20% on standart CD, "Vengeance" - 30% mitigation an not so long CD that also DAMAGES everyone who hits you, "Thrill of battle" - up 20% of your health and heal for the same amount, basicaly it's 20% of your HP shield that also INCREASES the healing recieved from all sources, "Equilibrium" - fat-ass healing of 1200 potency that can be 1440 potency under "Thrill of battle" effect and last, but not least - "Shake it off" - the PARTY WIDE SHIELD, that gives all 12% of your max. HP of shield, that can reach 18% of your HP (more than the DRK party shield, let me mind you).
You still think that he's underpowered??!! HELL NO. Job's in the perfect position now as the tank, that can be easily learned by anyone with GREAT mitigation and damage.
Now THIS reply is based on numbers and not BIASed, because my favorite tank will and ever will be PLD and DRK. I find WAR to simple to interest me for long, but still he's to efective to not level him up.

[Kouhai]

Ehm... lolwut? Lowest DPS? Proves, please.

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...mount&region=2

This shows that war has the lowest dps ceiling.

Thrill and equilibrium are not damage mitigation, they are simply for making it an easier job on the healers. Rampart/Vengeance are shared among all tanks, with vengeance being a 55 potency attack on only *physical* attacks, meaning magic only bosses are exactly the same as the others. It has raw intuition, but if you know anything about tanking you would know that nascent flash is better for all cases except tank busters. That's it, that's all the mitigation that warrior has. We use Shake it Off for some things now as personal mitigation so we don't die. Ignoring holmgang being arguably the worst and best invuln as it's useless up until you need to cheese a tank buster, then it's amazing because of how often you can use it. Now lets look at all the other tanks:

DRK kept it's 60 second magic vuln down which used to outclass war but now it's about equal, but it then gets TBN which is a free 25% extra health every 15 seconds and it's a dps gain to use it.

GNB has camouflage which is 20 seconds of 10% damage down and 50% extra parry rate, which is very good might I add. It's better than rampart in trash pulls in dungeons etc. Aurora which is equivalent to equilibrium. heart of light which is better for savage as mitigation of raid wides is more imperative than shielding and it can mitigate multiple. Heart of stone is like nascent flash but mitigates more and doesn't heal, but honestly the heal is negligible so it doesn't matter too much. Also the fact that it heals itself and gives themselves a shield on average every 5 gcds, which is about as good as path.

PLD has sheltron which is as good as raw int, comes up more often, can be used back to back, and doesn't share with anything like flash and raw int. Clemency can be used to heal anyone and is buffed by requiescat. Divine veil, given that it's already better than shake it off as divine veil is based off the pld's health and shake is based of each individual's health meaning that a war needs to use 2-3 cooldowns to make it as good as divine veil. In a panic it can pop passage of arms if it's caught with no cooldowns, but it's very difficult with sheltron being a thing.

Now really quick, I want to mention. "oh, but war has storm's eye, that's 10% extra damage permanently" well fight or flight has a higher damage increase if used on cooldown on average than storm's eye, they have more OGCDs and they do more damage, and dots that are buffed a lot by their damage buffs. War has 322 average potency with eye, GNB has 395 average potency without their damage buffs, and pld has over 400 something. Both GNB and PLD have dots that do a lot of damage. Both GNB and PLD have OGCDs that can be spammed and also do a lot of damage. War has nothing of the sort and is outclassed.

[jmoak]

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...mount&region=2

This shows that war has the lowest dps ceiling.

Which ironically shows warrior above dark knight at max parse, aka the "ceiling".

Thrill and equilibrium are not damage mitigation, they are simply for making it an easier job on the healers.

Thrill of battle is definitely mitigation, or have you forgotten it gives you 20% max hp increase which effectively makes it similiar to a shield like TBN. Not to even mention its multiple other effects which makes the skill very powerful.

Equilibrium cannot be used on ally like aurora can but in self healing situation its just all around better due to not being HoT and getting boosted healing from thrill.
Clemency is super powerful during progression or dungeon runs but outside of that, using it is always dps loss which makes it pretty much unusable after you learn the fights.

Shake it off is imo better than drk and gnb party wide mitigations since party wide damage would have to overkill non tanks for that 10% to be more effective than 12% shield. Ofc this doesnt work against multiple hits but those are relatively uncommon. + shake works against physical damage too as a bonus. Its also atleast more convenient if less powerful than divine veil as its pain to try use veil in pug group.

As for the topic of HoS vs Nascent Flash, HoS IS better than flash as it lasts longer and has 5% more mitigation, not to mention the shield from your weaponskill combo. But i think you underestimate the heal from flash. If you get lucky to align using flash with either inner chaos or IR window you can easily heal the other person for 10-20k hp which doesnt sound alot but its better than the 5% unless the damage is lethal.

Finally about sheltron. You said it comes up faster than RI but thats untrue, Your auto attacks will generate enough gauge to use for 1 sheltron roughly every 25 seconds IF you keep full uptime, which ofc means its essentially the same as RI. It also shares this cost with intervention just like nascent flash does with RI, difference being you can store 2 uses in a row with 100 gauge.

I'm not saying warrior doesn't need buffs because it clearly does, but theres lot of weird misinformation going around right now and acting like warrior is somehow way behind other tanks when in reality its only real issue is damage (and even then its behind by 2%....wow).

[Kouhai]

Which ironically shows warrior above dark knight at max parse, aka the "ceiling".

Thrill of battle is definitely mitigation, or have you forgotten it gives you 20% max hp increase which effectively makes it similiar to a shield like TBN. Not to even mention its multiple other effects which makes the skill very powerful.

It's actually behind in damage and mitigation. And you say thrill is as good as TBN, yes, but should I remind you that you can use 6 TBNs for one Thrill use? Thrill is used more as a heal than anything and now that it's a conva too, people will save it for healing intensive parts. Basically still relying a lot on the healer.

And sheltron is better because you won't use it on cooldown like you would theoretically use RI. So it's basically always up when you need it AND lasts longer. The thing is also, nascent flash is cooldown for yourself, I.E if the healer is ignoring you, you can get back 30K hp which is good, but you have to choose between that and raw int. You very rarely use intervention at all. Like if a healer dies and the other healer is out of mp so you intervention him so they have a better chance of living kind of rarely. Or you use it as an off tank for the mt but then you don't need sheltron because you aren't taking damage. You see the issue here yet? A war has to pick and choose and the pld doesn't have to think.

The only thing thrill is good for, in my experience, was for when you wanted to stack it with other cooldowns for really powerful busters like in ultimate. Other than that, it was used as a dps increase. Every single savage turn in SB I rarely used Thrill as a cooldown for mitigation, it was purely for upheaval in inner release. This was mostly because busters don't happen often enough and if they do, they usually require tank swapping allowing for your CDs to come back. Now that raw int is 25 seconds, thrill won't see uses other than healing autos. I would know, doing the extreme trials I use it out of reflex because of upheaval or for the sake of using it.

I'll make a future post about war in savage, though I know it won't perform as well as the other tanks in many categories unless they buff some aspects of it.

[jmoak]

It's actually behind in damage and mitigation.

Well i did say its behind by 2% which likely will be buffed tomorrow but i really dont know how you can claim its behind in mitigation and then claim you dont even use thrill to its fullest now.

How about you pop that + RI > get hit by tankbuster > live with much more hp than you would with just RI > heal with equilibrium boosted by thrill and save your healers cooldowns > pop shake it off to dispell both buffs for pretty chunky 16% party wide shield for upcoming raid wide damage.

You also shouldnt compare thrill to TBN as a cooldown, i was only giving example as to how to use it to survive tankbusters. Thrill competes against dark mind and camouflage, the former can be essentially useless depending on the fight, the other is trash for anything but auto attacks.

Shake it off can be used as personal mitigation same as paladin wings, but as with equilibrium it's completely dps free to do so if you have to
and Holmgang is still the best invuln cooldown by far.

Like seriously how can anyone claim warrior lacks in mitigation when only things paladin has is sheltron, rampart and sentinel and hallowed with its massive cooldown. Not to mention gunbreakers HoS is good off tank cooldown but pitiful for self mitigation compared to the others.
Only one that can compete against warrior self mitigation is dark knight because TBN is just that stupidly powerful.

[Izsha]

A lot of this stuff is just semantics. "War doesnt have mitigation because ToB" etc is just silly. In the most literal sense, ToB is not mitigation because it doesnt make the damage number you take go down. But that doesnt make it a bad skill inferior to a true mitigation skill. Its the same misinterpretation people had about defiance vs other tank stances with mitigation.

You dont need to mitigate damage to have the same end result.

There are 2 things that matter for tanks defensively.

1. Effective hp. This is how much damage a monster has to output before you die. Ie: surviving tankbusters that can 1 shot you. You need enough effective hp to still be alive after it hits.

2. Reducing strain on healers. Imagine you hade 500k hp and no defensive skills. No tank buster can kill you but the healers still have to heal MORE health through a fight than a tank with 120k hp with our normal skills. (Ignoring outlires like % hp heals like bene)

Mitigation (rampart etc) does BOTH at the same time. It reduces the damage you take and therefore increases the damage you need to take before dying (effective hp) and reduces heals reqhired because you took less damage.

ToB also does BOTH. HP buff increases efrective hp so you dont die and conv effect reduces the heals you need to top off again.

Shields (tbn etc) do both. Harder to die, reduces the heals because some damage was entirely negated and doesnt need to be healed.

All this "war has no mitigation so its worse" is stupid. Stop getting humg up on the literal term mitigation. The important thing is the end result is the same it just takes a mechanically different route. But the fundamentals are healer strain and effective hp which all tanks do VERY VERY well right now. And this goes for the party support. Shields vs mit. Its all the same and they are tuned to be roughly equal with the games damage output. You can concoct some extreme examples that show a slight difference, but in almost all real cases they are in the same ballpark.
__________________

as for damage. Stop cherry picking. You cant only look at max potential and claim imbalance when for the other 99% of players the rankings are different. Demanding a war buff because the 10 best warriors on all servers cant beat the 10 best X tank on all servers is meaninless when it is not the case for literally everyone else. The margins are small and warrior is middling. Dont twist facts to make a case.

This goes for our favorite resident warripr hater in this thread too. Exaggating crap, omitting info and cherry picking specific items to pretend you have a valid argument just means your position is weak and you cant support it.

[IntrovertAnt]

Simple, because WAR has the lowest possible DPS cieling of all the tank jobs...

That link shows on average that DRKs were beating WARs by, wait for it...LESS THAN 50 DPS.
AND WAIT
on the top 1% of all parses on fflogs.


And you think WAR is bad??

I don't think tanks have ever been this balanced in terms of DPS. There is literally no reason anyone would exclude any of the tanks for any content this expansion unless your name is this person above.

[NyneSwordz]

Skills that everybody on these forum would laugh at you for ever using in relevant content...We bring our own misfortune.

Kind of condescending to be calling content that people enjoy irrelevant, no?

After Bloodbath was removed, Inner Beast was the last self sustaining action left that would allow for soloing Extreme Trials. Not everyone has the time or is able to complete ex trials as they are released. It was nice to be able to do them solo as a war.

Inner Beast also made wars nearly unkillable in pvp, and removed the need to grab additional actions like rampart.

With inner beast gone, warrior self sustain is gutted, because Nascent flash requires party members.

As for Steel Cyclone, for pure self heals in dungeons, it worked well enough, had a great animation and was fun to use.

Nascent Flash works just as well for the same purpose if not better, but pretty much requires a macro. For ease of use, I can see why some would prefer Steel Cyclone.

[FallenWings]

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...mount&region=2

This shows that war has the lowest dps ceiling.

Your link is set on non-standard comps with only 300 results per tank.

Here is the actual link without trying to conjure false evidence for your claim: https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/28#class=Tanks&dataset=99&aggregate=amount

Oh look. Warrior is not bottom in standard performance and max performance. And it's difference from the top is a grand total of 130 dps(a difference of less than 2%)?! GG WAR WORST tank because it's not the highest whilst also being the most durable whilst also having massive burst type dps for the *least* amount of effort. /s

[Kabooa]

Your link is set on non-standard comps

I didn't catch this.

Kudos to you.