Lack of End Game Content

[Zabuza]

Your opinion that this game could use more difficult battle content is not invalid.

Your opinion that new hairstyles is something for the casual, therefore it somehow makes it only fair to have new difficult battle content is invalid. Things like new races, new hairstyles, etc. are for everyone, not just a portion of the playerbase.

Problem with that argument is it is deceptive and you could say that raiders have more content than casuals when it is only technically true. They have far less content that they care about.

Taking a look at that list, outside of hunts, I don't really partake in any of the stuff I listed. I don't care about it and I don't do it. I'll probably stop doing hunts altogether once Savage hits.

lol casuals have 95% of the content? We are still talking about "Endgame PvE content", right?

Casuals have normal mode raid, 24 man raid, expert roulette, deep dungeon and the relic quest.
Hardcores have savage raid, ultimate raid and extreme trials. I would say they have the deep dungeon too, actually the bigger part of heavon on high, but there is no gear progression so it doesn't count when I understood this discussion correct.

Yeah, casuals have more content. But they don't have 95% of it.

But I get it. You say you raiders have 5% of the content and all the other people have 95%. But these other people are not only PvE casuals, they are also crafters and gatherers, I would count fishing extra, people who like the gold saucer, people who like housing, people who like PvP...
Wich of these groups do you want to tell: "Sorry, we raiders are already getting content in every major patch, but since we want more of the pie you will not get anything this expansion"?

Casuals have far more content in general, and many have been talking about how they have more stuff to do than they can keep up with.

[linay]

Problem with that argument is it is deceptive and you could say that raiders have more content than casuals when it is only technically true. They have far less content that they care about.

And that's up to them. It still doesn't give anyone the right to just say certain contents/features are specifically not made for them when such is clearly not the case. Not everything is about the division between raiders and casuals. In fact, if you want to stick to the topic of this thread, it is only applicable to optional battle content. The fact that we have savage raid and extreme trial is the only place where that division matters in design.

Other types of contents/features, on the other hand, have nothing to do with that division. Some hardcore raiders may enjoy those contents and some casuals may not enjoy those contents.

[Zabuza]

And that's up to them. It still doesn't give anyone the right to just say certain contents/features are specifically not made for them when such is clearly not the case. Not everything is about the division between raiders and casuals. In fact, if you want to stick to the topic of this thread, it is only applicable to optional battle content. The fact that we have savage raid and extreme trial is the only place where that division matters in design.

Other types of contents/features, on the other hand, have nothing to do with that division. Some hardcore raiders may enjoy those contents and some casuals may not enjoy those contents.

Well, okay. I can also play this game. Casuals can do Savage and Ultimate too. They can play this game just like I can. You can sit at your computer/laptop and log in. If you put in more effort you can beat Savage/Ultimate. So we all have the same amount of content. It honestly sounds foolish. You know what raiders in this thread are trying to say and you're being deliberately disingenuous now.

[linay]

Well, okay. I can also play this game. Casuals can do Savage and Ultimate too. They can play this game just like I can. You can sit at your computer/laptop and log in. If you put in more effort you can beat Savage/Ultimate. So we all have the same amount of content. It honestly sounds foolish. You're being deliberately disingenuous now.

No, because I don't have to say raiders should just put in more effort to enjoy other types of content. They either do or they don't. Their choice.

And if savage was made for everyone, then we wouldn't need normal that gives the same gear except undyeable and with worse stats. Or the fact that coil is not included in raid roulette. All these restrictions and duplications of work point to the difference in this type of content and something that is truly made for everyone.

[Zabuza]

No, because I don't have to say raiders should just put in more effort to enjoy other types of content. They either do or they don't. Their choice.

And if savage was made for everyone, then we wouldn't need normal that gives the same gear except undyeable and with worse stats.

And I can argue that at the end of the day, everyone who raided savage put in effort at some point to practice their class and/or research it to improve at this game. Casuals are also capable of this, but don't want to. Technically you CAN clear the content. Casuals need normal because they don't want to put in the effort to play at their best. They just want to chill, which I can understand. They don't care about playing megatryhard, and I don't care about non-challenging content.

So are you, your whole argument is that you are going to a successful themepark that has lots of rides but keep saying "you know your least popular rides? Make more of those even if you have to sacrifice some of the more popular ones because there are so many."
Then when the many people who enjoy those rides come over and say they don't want to give them up, you tell them "too bad you have more other rides go use those we want more." The majority are scratching their heads as are the park owners because that arguments benefits no one standing there but you.

Or you already have enough rides to please all of the non-thrill seekers at the park, but those who enjoy thrill rides want a ride or two they can enjoy. Instead of making that one or two rides for them which would INCREASE the amount of people that come to your park, you keep making additional mild rides, and when the non-thrill seekers visit your park, they are not able to ride even half of all the rides during their visit, because there are simply too many in the park for them to actively participate in during the visit. Meanwhile, the thrill seekers have nothing to ride, but the non-thrill seekers keep lobbying the park owners to not add any thrill rides anyways out of pure selfishness.

[linay]

And I can argue that at the end of the day, everyone who raided savage put in effort at some point to practice their class and/or research it to improve at this game. Casuals are also capable of this, but don't want to. Technically you CAN clear the content. Casuals need normal because they don't want to put in the effort to play at their best. They just want to chill, which I can understand. They don't care about playing megatryhard, and I don't care about non-challenging content.

So, for your argument to work, casuals need to be more like raiders. My point, however, is that raiders don't need to be casual to enjoy other content.

[Zabuza]

So, for your argument to work, casuals need to be more like raiders. My point, however, is that raiders don't need to be casual to enjoy other content.

Actually, they do. It would take a lot of effort to try to force myself to care about those things which I consider pointless and asinine. I respect that people enjoy doing them, but I don't want to do them. To tell me to 'enjoy' them is telling me to put a lot of effort in to try to trick my own mind into believing it's something I care about.

[BlitzAceRush]

Well, okay. I can also play this game. Casuals can do Savage and Ultimate too. They can play this game just like I can. You can sit at your computer/laptop and log in. If you put in more effort you can beat Savage/Ultimate. So we all have the same amount of content. It honestly sounds foolish. You know what raiders in this thread are trying to say and you're being deliberately disingenuous now.

So are you, your whole argument is that you are going to a successful themepark that has lots of rides but keep saying "you know your least popular rides? Make more of those even if you have to sacrifice some of the more popular ones because there are so many."
Then when the many people who enjoy those rides come over and say they don't want to give them up, you tell them "too bad you have more other rides go use those we want more." The majority are scratching their heads as are the park owners because that arguments benefits no one standing there but you.