Lack of End Game Content

[BlitzAceRush]

I wish that what you say was the case. FFXIV has already been their biggest moneymaker as of late and they have still diverted funds from it to other projects. I think it is a mistake, as FFXIV is quite popular now, and could be more so if they would pay it some additional attention.

Because unfortunately its working, despite yours and others complaints the game has continued to grow, gain more players it's not faltering or stalling out its still going in its stride and until something goes wrong SE are going to see no need to change anything.

People have been saying ARR needs fat trimmed as it turns away new players, I agree but the game pulls in more than it notices leave because of ARR.
PVP people want more, but the game continues to grow so it doesn't notice the people who want more PVP, can't get it and leave.
People want more end-game, more hardcore content more long lasting content but the game continues to grow without it so onward it goes.

That's why someone way at the start of this thread said the best thing all you people who want more end-game more hardcore content could do is leave permanently, not to get rid of you but because the only weapon SE will listen to is the bottom line, Yoshi listens but he can only work with the resources hes got so a shift to more of what you want is unlikely as is even if you did all leave as so long as the game continues to grow and thrive under its current model SE won't miss you.

You keep asking why the casuals aren't willing to give up a little of what they have for you but why should they? There are better options for what you want elsewhere just as this game suites their needs, you keep trying to tell them this game would be so much better and would tap its "true potential" if they just give you what you want, but what dose that mean to them? How is taking something even small away from themselves for content they have no interest in better the game for them? It dose not.

You're asking them to take something they like and alter part of it into something they do not, it's not surprising you'd get push back more so when you're telling them the 90% of the game they enjoy is irreverent to you while your 10% should be increased at the cost of theirs when there are games that already cater better to you and worse to them, but they are not there asking for it to suite them but you are here telling them to suite you.

[Zabuza]

Because unfortunately its working, despite yours and others complaints the game has continued to grow, gain more players it's not faltering or stalling out its still going in its stride and until something goes wrong SE are going to see no need to change anything.

People have been saying ARR needs fat trimmed as it turns away new players, I agree but the game pulls in more than it notices leave because of ARR.
PVP people want more, but the game continues to grow so it doesn't notice the people who want more PVP, can't get it and leave.
People want more end-game, more hardcore content more long lasting content but the game continues to grow without it so onward it goes.

That's why someone way at the start of this thread said the best thing all you people who want more end-game more hardcore content could do is leave permanently, not to get rid of you but because the only weapon SE will listen to is the bottom line, Yoshi listens but he can only work with the resources hes got so a shift to more of what you want is unlikely as is even if you did all leave as so long as the game continues to grow and thrive under its current model SE won't miss you.

You keep asking why the casuals aren't willing to give up a little of what they have for you but why should they? There are better options for what you want elsewhere just as this game suites their needs, you keep trying to tell them this game would be so much better and would tap its "true potential" if they just give you what you want, but what dose that mean to them? How is taking something even small away from themselves for content they have no interest in better the game for them? It dose not.

You're asking them to take something they like and alter part of it into something they do not, it's not surprising you'd get push back more so when you're telling them the 90% of the game they enjoy is irreverent to you while your 10% should be increased at the cost of theirs when there are games that already cater better to you and worse to them, but they are not there asking for it to suite them but you are here telling them to suite you.

I have already been unsubbing once I have full savage gear, and it hurts my heart every time. I do not like WoW, and I've not heard of any other MMO having proper endgame, so that leaves me with NOTHING. I want a home, and this could be it if they would be some effort in. The way I see it, they'd barely be taking anything away from the casual crowd to expand endgame, because I keep hearing you guys are drowning in content. I guess that's where we differ. Because I feel if they even took 5% of your casual content away to divert those resources to endgame, hardly anyone would unsub because they have so much content already, but they can finally give the starving raiders more to do, keeping subs like me in the process, and attracting other raiders to this game...

[BlitzAceRush]

I have already been unsubbing once I have full savage gear, and it hurts my heart every time. I do not like WoW, and I've not heard of any other MMO having proper endgame, so that leaves me with NOTHING. I want a home, and this could be it if they would be some effort in. The way I see it, they'd barely be taking anything away from the casual crowd to expand endgame, because I keep hearing you guys are drowning in content. I guess that's where we differ. Because I feel if they even took 5% of your casual content away to divert those resources to endgame, hardly anyone would unsub because they have so much content already, but they can finally give the starving raiders more to do, keeping subs like me in the process, and attracting other raiders to this game...

Yet as I pointed out, the game keeps growing doing what it's doing now, I know you say it'll keep you and attract raiders but that would have to be better than their current growth otherwise its a loss as simply changing nothing would have brought them better results.

it's also not as simple as take 5% from the casuals as Yoshi has said in regards to the Mythic+ question, it's about having enough of the right kinds of staff, people with the right skills and experience.
For example them cancelling the 3rd Ultimate early on lead to resources being available to create BA.
Now reverse that, lets say they gave you guys a second full savage raid, or your Mythic+ but as there are only a few people on their team who can do that level of content they were pulled off what they would have been working on, say the 3rd alliance raid now it's only "1" raid a small price to pay for a whole second savage raid or a full mythic plus system. However that's a whole piece of content sacrificed by the many, for the few, it's understandable they'd not be OK with that.

You also say you want a home, yet you've picked one of the most easy going and casual MMO's on the market to try and make your endgame stand. You say you don't like WoW but it is more suited for what you're asking for, as are other MMO's 14 very much isn't i's never prided itself on massive long lasting endgame content, even back in ARR with coil it was still one raid do it for the week and done.

You're not looking for a home in 14, it's more like you've rented a room in someone else's and then are trying to redecorate some of their rooms claiming "This could be my home too, if you just let me make some of it to my liking even though I knew going in that I was just getting the room."

[Zabuza]

Yet as I pointed out, the game keeps growing doing what it's doing now, I know you say it'll keep you and attract raiders but that would have to be better than their current growth otherwise its a loss as simply changing nothing would have brought them better results.

it's also not as simple as take 5% from the casuals as Yoshi has said in regards to the Mythic+ question, it's about having enough of the right kinds of staff, people with the right skills and experience.
For example them cancelling the 3rd Ultimate early on lead to resources being available to create BA.
Now reverse that, lets say they gave you guys a second full savage raid, or your Mythic+ but as there are only a few people on their team who can do that level of content they were pulled off what they would have been working on, say the 3rd alliance raid now it's only "1" raid a small price to pay for a whole second savage raid or a full mythic plus system. However that's a whole piece of content sacrificed by the many, for the few, it's understandable they'd not be OK with that.

You also say you want a home, yet you've picked one of the most easy going and casual MMO's on the market to try and make your endgame stand. You say you don't like WoW but it is more suited for what you're asking for, as are other MMO's 14 very much isn't i's never prided itself on massive long lasting endgame content, even back in ARR with coil it was still one raid do it for the week and done.

You're not looking for a home in 14, it's more like you've rented a room in someone else's and then are trying to redecorate some of their rooms claiming "This could be my home too, if you just let me make some of it to my liking even though I knew going in that I was just getting the room."

Even if I accepted your premise, would that piece being sacrificed even hurt the casual population much if they are drowning in content? And basically what you're telling me is to not want anything more for this game and just accept second-class status here or leave...I mean, I guess that's great for you since you already have what you want.

[Nims]

Even if I accepted your premise, would that piece being sacrificed even hurt the casual population much if they are drowning in content? And basically what you're telling me is to not want anything more for this game and just accept second-class status here or leave...I mean, I guess that's great for you since you already have what you want.

I wish people like this would have the same attitude when they go to PvP games and ask for PvE servers or for less PvP. Or when they ask for things to be made more casual.

[Krotoan]

Even if I accepted your premise, would that piece being sacrificed even hurt the casual population much if they are drowning in content? And basically what you're telling me is to not want anything more for this game and just accept second-class status here or leave...I mean, I guess that's great for you since you already have what you want.

Well yes. Nobody here who is getting everything they want would like it to change. This isn't greedy, or selfish but common sense. Why give up anything if it's all working for us now?

Tell me it'd stop at 5% and I won't believe you. Then it would be "well if we just had... " . If this had anything to do with actual human suffering or needs you'd have an argument since people would be being denied basic human needs. But it's a video game and a complete luxury. This is our place, you are welcome to come in and play , but we're going to complain if you try to change it. I believe you expressed the same sentiment.

[Driavna]

Well yes. Nobody here who is getting everything they want would like it to change. This isn't greedy, or selfish but common sense. Why give up anything if it's all working for us now?

Tell me it'd stop at 5% and I won't believe you. Then it would be "well if we just had... " . If this had anything to do with actual human suffering or needs you'd have an argument since people would be being denied basic human needs. But it's a video game and a complete luxury. This is our place, you are welcome to come in and play , but we're going to complain if you try to change it. I believe you expressed the same sentiment.

From ARR to HW SE added normal mode so everyone can enjoy the story behind it and earn some loot. From HW and SB they remove the extra details from gear so now the armour is the same but no dye option. From SB to ShB the extra boss from savage has been removed because certain sector of the player based complained.

On top of that since SB extreme primals and the first two turns of each tier from savage are casual friendly content, with the later two become more accessible as you gear up. There is also the option to experience then and earn the rewards a patch or an expansion later. My point? Is content that everyone can enjoy and participate at some point or another. If someone decided they don't want to do that is their problem, like is my problem not having every single class to max level.

Also, ultimate fights are 100% re-use of old assets with re-skinned rewards while 24m raids are getting more and more resources, longer quest and even voice acting during boss fights. Also, Ultimate was reduced from 3 to 2 and I have the feeling this expansion is going to be down to 1.

The reality is that SE already invests more money on content for everyone and if they add more content towards lvl 80 will also be accessible for everyone (for example any new raid extra turn will have normal mode) at some point or another. All of this without touching the average content casuals do:

- Normal mode raid.
- 24m raid.
- Roulettes.
- Relic.
- Leveling.
- MSQ.
- Glamour.

Adding more "interesting" level 80 content is only going to benefit FFXIV (and in general people is not asking for Ultimate level of challenge, most will be happy with something similar to current extreme primals) one way or another with the exception of people that refuse to do anything that requires any kind of effort and this type of players must be ignored or you will kill the game.

Baldasion arsenal was the perfect example of challenging content accessible for everyone (with the exception of how you get inside), you need to prepare yourself and deal with easy, but unforgiving, mechanics.

[Krotoan]

From ARR to HW SE added normal mode so everyone can enjoy the story behind it and earn some loot. From HW and SB they remove the extra details from gear so now the armour is the same but no dye option. From SB to ShB the extra boss from savage has been removed because certain sector of the player based complained.

On top of that since SB extreme primals and the first two turns of each tier from savage are casual friendly content, with the later two become more accessible as you gear up. There is also the option to experience then and earn the rewards a patch or an expansion later. My point? Is content that everyone can enjoy and participate at some point or another.

So.. "look, now that you can faceroll this content it's all yours and it counts as us doing something for you!" Sounds.. a little unappealing.

If someone decided they don't want to do that is their problem, like is my problem not having every single class to max level.

Sounds like the attitude you dislike from the other side is the same. Why concede if the feeling is mutual?

Also, ultimate fights are 100% re-use of old assets with re-skinned rewards while 24m raids are getting more and more resources, longer quest and even voice acting during boss fights. Also was reduce from 3 to 2 and I have the feeling this expansion is going to be down to 1.

The reality is that SE already invests more money on content for everyone and if they add more content towards lvl 80 will also be accessible for everyone (because any new raid extra turn will have normal mode) at some point or another. All of this without touching the average content casuals do:

- Normal mode raid.
- 24m raid.
- Roulettes.
- Relic.
- Leveling.
- MSQ.
- Glamour.

none of this speaks to what I referenced. Why change the formula that is currently working? The question that was asked was "why are so many people against adding MORE challenging 'endgame' content? It's such a tiny change" The answer is because it would take away something from the system we're enjoying. It might not even be a lot, I can understand that. But why would they support something that removes content from them? Because maybe they'll get a toned down version later? Why be happy with leftovers when we're getting the lions share of the content?

Adding more level 80 is going to benefit everyone (and in general people is not asking for Ultimate level of challenge, most will be happy with something similar to current extreme primals) one way or another with the exception of people that refuse to do anything that requires any kind of effort and this type of players must be ignored or you will kill the game.

It may eventually add content for everyone but it will primarily benefit the "endgame" crowd. The "casual" crowd you are refusing to name has been a majority supporting this game for 6 years, seems to work.

[BlitzAceRush]

Even if I accepted your premise, would that piece being sacrificed even hurt the casual population much if they are drowning in content? And basically what you're telling me is to not want anything more for this game and just accept second-class status here or leave...I mean, I guess that's great for you since you already have what you want.

Well, yes, it would. Losing that 24 man would impact so many more people than not having mythic+ would, again you're asking the many to be willing to give up something they want and expect from a game the love it is for for a few that openly admit the game isn't designed for them but could be redesigned for them.

You're not second class and you're not somewhere you're not wanted though you like to be dramatic, you've willingly come to a game that is not designed to give you want you want, admit it likely couldn't with out removing other content or slowing the patch cycle and despite all this saying any sacrifice is fine because the game that isn't designed for me should alter itself for me, even though the majority who are here are here because it's the way it is now.

Again you're not asking for a better for the game, you're trying to redesign it into something its not and not trying to be, not because it would make the game better, but because it would make it better for you.

Seeing as your argument is those with more should sacrifice for those with less, even when it makes little to no sense, the PVP guys have less than you, if the only person who could design more PVP content was also the lead designer on raids, as you've 5% to their 2% wouldn't you mind losing something for them? After all you've got more than them, isn't that loss worth letting them find a home here too?

[Zabuza]

Well, yes, it would. Losing that 24 man would impact so many more people than not having mythic+ would, again you're asking the many to be willing to give up something they want and expect from a game the love it is for for a few that openly admit the game isn't designed for them but could be redesigned for them.

You're not second class and you're not somewhere you're not wanted though you like to be dramatic, you've willingly come to a game that is not designed to give you want you want, admit it likely couldn't with out removing other content or slowing the patch cycle and despite all this saying any sacrifice is fine because the game that isn't designed for me should alter itself for me, even though the majority who are here are here because it's the way it is now.

Again you're not asking for a better for the game, you're trying to redesign it into something its not and not trying to be, not because it would make the game better, but because it would make it better for you.

Seeing as your argument is those with more should sacrifice for those with less, even when it makes little to no sense, the PVP guys have less than you, if the only person who could design more PVP content was also the lead designer on raids, as you've 5% to their 2% wouldn't you mind losing something for them? After all you've got more than them, isn't that loss worth letting them find a home here too?

Interestingly enough, the casuals gradually changed this game to become easier and easier. So, you're all the ones who changed it to be more casual to begin with. And, why should raiders, who have the a super small slice of the pie compared to you, give up content for PvPers, when you have 95% of the pie? Do you not understand that you'd still be drowning in content if you lost even 5% of what you had, whereas raiders are already struggling for content? It's not the same situation at all. Some triple triad cards not created, some GATEs/achievements left out in exchange for Mythic+ or some other type of endgame content?

If Raiders were 95% of this game, for sure I wouldn't mind giving something up to help PvPers or casuals out, and I mean that. Because I want everyone to have fun in this game, however difficult that may be. If the roles were reversed, I would love for them to create content that made it feel like you had a home here too, if I'd still have more than enough content to do, like you guys would if they directed 5% of their resources to endgame.