Square Enix, please think about both Casual AND Hardcore crafters..

[Nixxe]

Aren't "no lifers" already being rewarded by the amount of gil you can make and what that allows you to do, specifically:

a) get ahead faster - because I assume that noone who has made to all 80s in the first week did so by gathering every single component themselves and even if they did, that required far more time than any casual playing. You can afford materia stockpiles for penta-melding much more easily than someone with less time or gil.
b) being ahead means you'll be able to capitalize on the upcoming savage release to make even more gil.
c) gil allows you to get into housing; you can buy gear for alts instead of collecting and making it yourself; you can buy mounts that other people have to farm, you can buy any glamour.

So it seems to me that hardcore crafters get abundant rewards over casual ones. Since the abilities you are complaining about are QoL ones that SE has introduced to help casual crafters to catch up to you and that's what you don't like.

That gil generation is dependent on the relative scarcity of the items. Making crafting all jokey dokey both reduces the demand for those items and increases the supply, drastically reducing their value. That implicit reward you're talking about is the one that's at risk because the increase in purchasing power as items get cheaper does not out scale the drop in real value. If it's taken too far, as it has been in games like WoW, crafting pretty much becomes worthless.

Introducing things like Preparatory Touch is in no way, shape, or form a catch up mechanic or QoL, as QoL changes are tiny changes to the game that simply make something less aggravating, but have little to no impact on the overall balance or design. Some of these new abilities are instead meta defining and require you to already be caught up. They're also available from day 1 and it's equally valuable to everyone. Catch up mechanics are things like the crafting beast tribes, which are added late in the expansion to let everyone finish getting their stuff up.

[Joven]

Lol, I totally got ignored. I guess ignoring something you don't like is easier than addressing it.

[CookiesNCreams]

Lol, I totally got ignored. I guess ignoring something you don't like is easier than addressing it.

99% of your points are just redundant. I have displayed counter arguments for each and every one of your complaints. You are free to read my posts again. Also, if you want to be inflammatory in this discussion, you are free to just not say anything. You're leaning towards the "casual" side, so it's important you read my posts carefully instead of trying so hard to sound condescending over an opinion you clearly don't like, and apparently, motivated you enough to make a pointless post like that.

[Joven]

99% of your points are just redundant. I have displayed counter arguments for each and every one of your complaints. You are free to read my posts again. Also, if you want to be inflammatory in this discussion, you are free to just not say anything. You're leaning towards the "casual" side, so it's important you read my posts carefully instead of trying so hard to sound condescending over an opinion you clearly don't like, and apparently, motivated you enough to make a pointless post like that.

You haven't displayed any counter arguments towards any of the questions in my second post. What part of anything I've posted on here is "inflammatory"? I haven't called you names or insulted or cussed at you, just disagreed with you. So what your really saying there is "if you disagree with me you are free to just not say anything." I'm matching condescension with condescension. You don't want to have a discussion on this topic, you just want people to agree with you which is why I made that "useless post", so you might actually have to have a discussion with someone that disagrees with you instead of trying to shoot them down and move on.

[Granyala]

That gil generation is dependent on the relative scarcity of the items. Making crafting all jokey dokey both reduces the demand for those items and increases the supply, drastically reducing their value.

Which is completely and utterly irrelevant because if peoples income goes down across the board, prices will go down accordingly. The economy works just as it always has albeit with slightly smaller numbers.
Since there is nothing in this game that costs millions of gil in the first place (barring buying a house and gil is the least of the players worry in that area) there literally is no point in amassing 100s of millions except bragging rights.
No one will come to harm with easier crafting, no one will end up in the poor house. You can stop the hyperbole in that regard.

That being said: I still hope for the master book patterns to be a bit more challenging to craft than spamming prudent till success. That gets a bit lame. Okay for leveling crap but not ok for endgame crafts.

Lol, I totally got ignored. I guess ignoring something you don't like is easier than addressing it.

In a competitive environment, it makes 0 sense to gimp yourself, no matter how much you might enjoy the challenge.
The analogy would be to raid with unequipped slots because you deem the content too easy.

[Nixxe]

Which is completely and utterly irrelevant because if peoples income goes down across the board, prices will go down accordingly. The economy works just as it always has albeit with slightly smaller numbers.
Since there is nothing in this game that costs millions of gil in the first place (barring buying a house and gil is the least of the players worry in that area) there literally is no point in amassing 100s of millions except bragging rights.
No one will come to harm with easier crafting, no one will end up in the poor house. You can stop the hyperbole in that regard.

That being said: I still hope for the master book patterns to be a bit more challenging to craft than spamming prudent till success. That gets a bit lame. Okay for leveling crap but not ok for endgame crafts.

Which is not completely and utterly irrelevant because as I've said repeatedly I've already seen this play out in WoW and it did not in fact keep up.

Amassing gil is fun. Again, stop trying to take away everyone else's fun. That's incredibly selfish of you.

There's no hyperbole on my part. I didn't say people would end up in the poor house; I said crafting would become worthless. Flipping is better money anyway. I craft because it still makes enough money to satisfy me and is more fun than flipping. You're the one going off on ridiculous tangents about addiction and Skinner boxes because some people had the audacity to enjoy the game differently than you.

[Joven]

In a competitive environment, it makes 0 sense to gimp yourself, no matter how much you might enjoy the challenge.
The analogy would be to raid with unequipped slots because you deem the content too easy.

The OP said that "gil is irrelevant" and that's the only thing you compete for with crafting, so without that competition there's nothing stopping them from limiting their rotation to make a craft more challenging.

[Fiorinol]

Maybe Square Enix can start banning all the bot farms, and all the hardcore raiding FCs on my server who openly bot and lower prices on the marketboard.

[Driavna]

I have no intention to insult anyone and for a Theme Park MMO FFXIV crafting system is good and I don't think needs to change, still, I going to be blunt: even during ARR and HW the whole system was casual. Why?

- You can be everything in one character. No need to interact with others outside the marketplace.

- No need to compete for resources.

- This game uses a centralized marketplace, removing the importance of many other factors like location or marketing.

- All 8 DoLs are the same class.

- Materials only come in NQ/HQ.

- You can't modify the stats of any items.

- No decay.

So no, I don't think to make the final craft harder will make it more hardcore. IMO sound like just an excuse to gatekeep people out to amass more GIL. Isghard idea is a good approach for everyone, crafting is always going to be a side activity and as the own nature of everything else in FFXIV the value of the time invested will decrease over time. Farming extreme mounts when they are current is much harder than wait for a few patches or even expansion.

[Granyala]

Amassing gil is fun. Again, stop trying to take away everyone else's fun. That's incredibly selfish of you.

Being able to craft and be self sufficient is fun.
Stop trying to take a way my fun by reintroducing dumb and boring grinds. That's very selfish of you.

It works both ways.

The OP said that "gil is irrelevant".

Well obviously not to the other gal, see above.