Dark Knight follow up thread

[Tex_Mex]

I get it to bust just as much when I'm a mt as when I'm an ot

Completely subjective argument that will heavily differ based on the encounter. Still bad design IMO.

[Danelo]

Completely subjective argument that will heavily differ based on the encounter. Still bad design IMO.

Agree to disagree. I'm not a fan of the current build in a lot of ways but in my personal experience this has not been an issue I've had or heard widely complained about.

[TouchandFeel]

Agree to disagree. I'm not a fan of the current build in a lot of ways but in my personal experience this has not been an issue I've had or heard widely complained about.

The whole "TBN should not be tied to MP and DPS" argument has only really become a thing since Xenosys Vex's post 5.0 release tank video. I don't recall ever seeing this sentiment before then and now it is all over the place

All I want is good gameplay to be rewarded. If you jack up, fine, eat the 500 potency loss. But if you do it well then it's a gain and not neutral.. The idea that it's neutral or loss just sucks.

The complication with making DA use a straight gain, such as giving Edge/Shadow a potency boost when used through DA, is that it then in turn increases the potential loss if TBN doesn't break. By increasing the potential gain, you increase the potential loss since they are not separate factors. It also then leaves the foundational problem of the shield potentially not breaking unresolved. While doing something like making DA a gain seems at first glance like a good idea, it potentially just makes the problem worse or at best, more divisive.

[Tex_Mex]

The whole "TBN should not be tied to MP and DPS" argument has only really become a thing since Xenosys Vex's post 5.0 release tank video. I don't recall ever seeing this sentiment before then and now it is all over the place

That's only because Xeno is right He makes a pretty good argument for it too. The shield is great, but having it tied to DPS is just odd. The simple fix is just to remove Dark Arts and make TBN cost no mana, but more complex solutions are certainly alright. SE tends to just take the direct route though.

[Danelo]

The whole "TBN should not be tied to MP and DPS" argument has only really become a thing since Xenosys Vex's post 5.0 release tank video. I don't recall ever seeing this sentiment before then and now it is all over the place



The complication with making DA use a straight gain, such as giving Edge/Shadow a potency boost when used through DA, is that it then in turn increases the potential loss if TBN doesn't break. By increasing the potential gain, you increase the potential loss since they are not separate factors. It also then leaves the foundational problem of the shield potentially not breaking unresolved. While doing something like making DA a gain seems at first glance like a good idea, it potentially just makes the problem worse or at best, more divisive.

Regarding xenosysVex's vid yeah, it's Fair, but does that make it any less of a good point?

I never argued for more of a loss to the way TBN is set up now. Currently it's a loss, or neutral. In addition to how it's currently built make it refund 3000 mp when it pops. Good play is rewarded, bad play is punished. And if you don't think it'll pop, don't use it.

The other tanks are brain dead. Don't any of you want some job that has a higher skill ceiling and lower floor?

[Reynhart]

Regarding xenosysVex's vid yeah, it's Fair, but does that make it any less of a good point?

The point of Xeno was also that making TBN a skill that actually rewards you for good use would also make DRK skill ceiling much higher...but he somehow decided that it would be a problem, which I don't understand why. Let's also remember that, before ShB, breaking TBN did reward with Blood, which, depending on the fight, could be a clear DPS gain instead of being neutral at best.

Don't any of you want some job that has a higher skill ceiling and lower floor?

When you have 80 levels to learn how to play your job, I think it should be expected that you do more that rolling you head on the keyboard to have good results.

All the streamlining make the game more and more boring to play, in my opinion.

[Danelo]

The point of Xeno was also that making TBN a skill that actually rewards you for good use would also make DRK skill ceiling much higher...but he somehow decided that it would be a problem, which I don't understand why. Let's also remember that, before ShB, breaking TBN did reward with Blood, which, depending on the fight, could be a clear DPS gain instead of being neutral at best.

When you have 80 levels to learn how to play your job, I think it should be expected that you do more that rolling you head on the keyboard to have good results.

All the streamlining make the game more and more boring to play, in my opinion.

I get that xeno didn't think devs would do it bc it would allow for a dps gain, instead of neutral, when used optimally. And I understand that. But the second point was that it shouldn't be tied to a dps resource. That's a difficult think for fans of a resource management style tank to understand. I agree with xeno regarding the current build bc the resources to build mp back up have been decreased. So there has to be some give someplace.