SAM improvements that needed in the next patch.

[Astrus]

I'll agree on Shoha being a joke. The one upside is that I'm not missing a vital skill from 76-80.
Tsubamegaeshi is only clunky to use insofar as we can't use GCDs in between the iaijutsu and the repeat, changing things so we have a window of opportunity to use Tsubame (and thus are able to stagger it) is something I can get behind, making it instant-cast not so much.
Iaijutsu is the SAM hallmark feature and just because we now use it twice back to back it hardly makes us a "melee caster".

[Liam_Harper]

Laughs in 3.0 Dissipation and 4.0 Plenary Indulgence.

Aye, you think they'd have learned instead of repeating the same mistake yet again for 5.0

[cactuarzzzz]

I'll agree on Shoha being a joke. The one upside is that I'm not missing a vital skill from 76-80.
Tsubamegaeshi is only clunky to use insofar as we can't use GCDs in between the iaijutsu and the repeat, changing things so we have a window of opportunity to use Tsubame (and thus are able to stagger it) is something I can get behind, making it instant-cast not so much.
Iaijutsu is the SAM hallmark feature and just because we now use it twice back to back it hardly makes us a "melee caster".

I lost count how many time that Iaijutsu/Tsubame got "Interupted"
Do you aware that if you delay the cast or the cast got interupt it is a dps loss? I wonder how many people in this thread don't mind the dps loss because 2x consecutive castings make them feel like they look cool.

I think SAM main know the different between 1.8 and 3 secs of casting. Let not forget that some of boss attack can interupt the cast even if you don't move, some of the boss skill doesn't even require you to take damage like the first boss of Amaurot.

The fact about being Melee Caster doesn't just came from 2x consecutive castings alone it is because meditate charge too. I don't mind about Iaijutsus having a cast time but that should be the last about casting not throwing in another castings like what the dev have done.

[Astrus]

I lost count how many time that Iaijutsu/Tsubame got "Interupted"
Do you aware that if you delay the cast or the cast got interupt it is a dps loss? I wonder how many people in this thread don't mind the dps loss because 2x casting make them feel like they look cool.

I think SAM main know the different between 1.8 and 3 secs of casting. Let not forget that some of boss attack can interupt the cast even if you don't move, some of the boss skill doesn't even require you to take damage like the first boss of Amaurot.

Yes I'm aware it's a DPS loss and the number of usually perfectly avoidable damage I've eaten because I wanted to get Tsubame off is higher than I care to admit.
Still this is blowing the issue way out of proportion.
We have two skills with a cast timer (and Meditation for really long transitions but I'd rather they do something about Shoha...) we're not a caster by a long stretch.

[Nora_of_Mira]

1.3 x 2 + animation time . I counted and it is no less than 3 secs. If you delay the cast/delay your rotation = dps loss. If you skip the cast = dps loss.
Couple with the meditation charge that dev try to make sam player use, it sure feel like a caster.

and that is 100% the case for casting classes every single GCD. SAM has to deal with this every what, 8-9 GCDs then w/e the cooldown is the for the double Midare? you're not wrong that interrupting a cast is a dps loss....but the potency of your move is so massive probably for that reason.

[cactuarzzzz]

Yes I'm aware it's a DPS loss and the number of usually perfectly avoidable damage I've eaten because I wanted to get Tsubame off is higher than I care to admit.
Still this is blowing the issue way out of proportion.
We have two skills with a cast timer (and Meditation for really long transitions but I'd rather they do something about Shoha...) we're not a caster by a long stretch.

I wouldn't continue to argue about being caster any further. It wasn't the main point of this discussion, just a temporary name I call SAM at the moment and I expect it to change in next week.

[cactuarzzzz]

and that is 100% the case for casting classes every single GCD. SAM has to deal with this every what, 8-9 GCDs then w/e the cooldown is the for the double Midare? you're not wrong that interrupting a cast is a dps loss....but the potency of your move is so massive probably for that reason.

Right now the loss from delay is greater than the big potency to the point that it prevent SAM dps to be higher than DGN.

[Mylionare]

Right now the loss from delay is greater than the big potency to the point that it prevent SAM dps to be higher than DGN.

SAMs dps is pretty okay from what I've seen unless you speak of that which shall not be named which has a lot of stuffing going on with it. That being said the issues with SAM right now from my personal experience's are Shoha and Tsubame Gaeshi timing. Shoha needs a complete rework, meditate is a flawed skill in my opinion and very very badly designed. Ikkishoten probably needs an extra 10 Kenki, it just feels very subpar as an ability to me overall, I'd like Senei's cooldown to be lowered and separated from gurens.

Like with Unchained and Inner release I just don't think these "Choose one" abilities with long cooldowns are very fun to use or provide any real depth of gameplay.

[cactuarzzzz]

SAMs dps is pretty okay from what I've seen unless you speak of that which shall not be named which has a lot of stuffing going on with it. That being said the issues with SAM right now from my personal experience's are Shoha and Tsubame Gaeshi timing. Shoha needs a complete rework, meditate is a flawed skill in my opinion and very very badly designed. Ikkishoten probably needs an extra 10 Kenki, it just feels very subpar as an ability to me overall, I'd like Senei's cooldown to be lowered and separated from gurens.

Like with Unchained and Inner release I just don't think these "Choose one" abilities with long cooldowns are very fun to use or provide any real depth of gameplay.

I'm not sure we should expect more to fill our cup while it can seep down the hole at the bottom.

[Ayrie]

If a short spurt of moving mechanics was coming up, ones which prevent Iaijutsu casting... couldn't you just... Hikaze + Jinpu/Shifu to prep for a new Sen and then Midare + Tsubame after that window cleared? It isn't the most immaculate answer to the problem, but it could buy 4-5 seconds of minimal interruption instead of 4-5 seconds of total DPS outage.

Also, there is the ability to start casting and then move over the last X% of the cast bar... BLMs and healers know what I'm talking about. You could always game that soft spot in the code.

And if the mechanics are so intense for an extended period of time, you're most likely not in melee anyways.

Truly, though, adjusting to these sorts of challenges is what like... everyone has to do in some form or another.