Why are white mages allergic to regen?

[Hash_Browns]

Because to me it's not bad play? In fact, unless the WHM know the other trick to make the pull easier, I would welcome a regen on me prepull. It's only bad play if only one or neither know what they are doing, if both parties know what they're doing then it's fantastic.

Regen at full HP pre-pull isn't a bad play now?
The hell is happening in this thread.

Wait, you're level 50..?
NVM, I suppose.

[EaMett]

I have had at least 2 whm co-healers in the last week and half who would not help until the party was one aoe away from being killed. Whats really sad is the ones who make no attempt to heal themselves even if they are low on HP..nope you just see there cast bar throwing out dmg abilities.

Ironically the better your healer is the more likely they are to do this. No need to heal yourself if you know you can avoid the upcoming damage. No need to heal the party right away either. Especially if paired with a sch. Healers can just bring people up before the next damage hits and benefit from whatever passive healing is going on in the meantime. Of course what actually happens is the other healer probably doesn't have as much knowledge of the fight and timings and heals everyone up by themselves, then complains about the co-healer only dpsing lol. Not to say there aren't also a fair amount of players who only go on healer for the shorter queues, but yeah, just saying.

[Raven2014]

Well, I'd be foolish to ignore constructive criticism. I've always been under the impression that pulling with a ranged attack was the standard, because that's what I've seen other tanks doing all the time. Perhaps I will give this a go, thanks. It certainly makes sense.

I'll admit this is a surprise, not so often you see people on the forum taking advise from stranger on the chin. But yes try it, I guarantee you will like it. It is like you said: this is what other tanks doing ALL THE TIME. So it comes as no suprise why there are so many complains about regen prepull here.

[Liam_Harper]

For pre-pull regen it's worth noting that overheal emnity has been significantly nerfed while anything a tank does will make mobs glue to them. It's much less of an issue now although still not optimal on dungeon mob pulls.

I have notice that as well so many Whm getting lazy and just dpsing. I have had at least 2 whm co-healers in the last week and half who would not help until the party was one aoe away from being killed. Whats really sad is the ones who make no attempt to heal themselves even if they are low on HP..nope you just see there cast bar throwing out dmg abilities. SE should just make Whm a dps and come up with a new healer cause seems everyone playing a whm is treating like a dps with healing ability. I looked whm and honestly you could remove cure 1 ,2, regen, and medica. whm would still be the best healer in the game like they are now.

That can really depend.

If your healer is knowledgeable and knows what mechanics are coming up, this is good play. Why immediately heal yourself or the party if no aoes are coming up in the next 20 seconds? Nothing is going to hit you, so you could be at 1 health and in no danger whatsoever until that mechanic is due. The less experienced healer (or most players to be fair), won't have the order of every mechanic and its timing memorized and be able to resist panic at seeing low health bars. A co-healer might think "wtf why aren't they helping" when in fact they're the ones healing unnecessarily. This is mana efficient and maximizes contribution via damage.

Now of course, if anyone dies, your healer is just loading the work on you and absolutely deserves the blame.

[Raven2014]

Regen at full HP pre-pull isn't a bad play now?
The hell is happening in this thread.

Wait, you're level 50..?
NVM, I suppose.

Do you think someone who had been playing the game since 2014 is only a lvl50?

And like I said, it's only a bad play if you don't do it right. After all, I don't seem to have an issue keeping mobs on me with regen like many seem to do. :P

And what happening in this thread is people being narrow minded instead of working out potential improvement.

[Raven2014]

Ironically the better your healer is the more likely they are to do this. No need to heal yourself if you know you can avoid the upcoming damage. No need to heal the party right away either. Especially if paired with a sch. Healers can just bring people up before the next damage hits and benefit from whatever passive healing is going on in the meantime. Of course what actually happens is the other healer probably doesn't have as much knowledge of the fight and timings and heals everyone up by themselves, then complains about the co-healer only dpsing lol. Not to say there aren't also a fair amount of players who only go on healer for the shorter queues, but yeah, just saying.

I posted an example of this 2 pages back

A trademark of a good WHM, or ANY good healers really, is not about how much you heal, but knowing when and what to heal. Most high level healer will not simply heal because someone take damage, which is the common mentality in pug. For example:

-I once had a co-healer questioned why I didn't heal the party after the first AOE went out during the add phase of Innocent.
-I said I did Assize.
-The co-healer insisted it's not enough, because the party wasn't topped off and he "had to do all the work". (like many complains in this thread).
-To which I asked: why did you even top the party off to begin with?

Two and a half reason why no healer should heal during that phase:

-First: that first AOE is also the ONLY raid damage during that phase, there is no other damage (zip, nada, zero) going into the raid till the phase end. Even if someone has 1HP after that AOE, they still wont die during that phase.
-First and a half:If the tanks were top off and use their CD appropriately for the holy sword busters, then they too shouldn't need any heal before the adds die, unless your party DPS is so low that the adds stay up for long.
-Second: after the adds are down, there are a 10+ second transition into the next phase where you can't target anything, and thus have all the time in the world to heal the party up ... many times over.

That's why there is NO reason whatsoever to waste GCDs on heal when the adds are up, GCDs that are better used to bring the adds down even faster, then heal afterward.

[Vahlnir]

I'll admit this is a surprise, not so often you see people on the forum taking advise from stranger on the chin. But yes try it, I guarantee you will like it. It is like you said: this is what other tanks doing ALL THE TIME. So it comes as no suprise why there are so many complains about regen prepull here.

Admittedly I also looked it up. AoE enmity generation is a bit more powerful than throwing a single ranged attack at a group. In the time it takes for someone to use their ranged ability they lose out on one or 2 GCDs that could have been used to hit everything.

[Hash_Browns]

Do you think someone who had been playing the game since 2014 is only a lvl50?

And like I said, it's only a bad play if you don't do it right. After all, I don't seem to have an issue keeping mobs on me with regen like many seem to do. :P

And what happening in this thread is people being narrow minded instead of working out potential improvement.

I'm not going to assume someones level based on their join date, I'm going to assume it based on the levels they have...

Either way, it's still a bad play.
At best, you are overhealing your tank, and not getting smacked. At worse, the enemies are far apart, all of them rush the healer, and time is wasted. If a healer is going to put a regen on a tank, and continue to do so then they shouldn't be surprised when they start tanking mobs.

Even worse - I've had healers regen me DURING a pull. I still don't need the healing, but the healer puts that extra bit of screw you sprinkles right on top of my plate.

If you enjoy having to deal with it, so be it - but at the very least stop calling over-healing a "good play"

[Fynlar]

A separate post since this is to the other main complain I see in this thread: about regen pre-pull is bad. I'll tell you this: if I am tanking and you are healing, you are welcome to put Regen + Medica II on my pre-pull, and still no mobs gonna take so much a lick on you. This is actually the issue on the tanks not doing the pull correctly. Most tanks open their pull with a range attack (i.e Tomahawk/Shield Blob/Unmend) before following up with an AOE in the 2nd attack, it's this one GCD between your first and second move that make the mobs peeline to the healer. If you are a tank with this problem, do this: run straight to the pack and do your AOE like Flash as your first attack, then you will NEVER have this problem again. The range attack on the tanks are never meant to be your opener, it's only for picking up stray mobs.

While what you say to do is definitely what you should be doing as a tank (and is what I try to do, especially nowadays), I wouldn't go quite as far as to say you'll never have the problem again. Some enemies have different detection ranges and movement speeds, both of which may throw off your AoE timing and cause you to miss mobs. I see this happen frequently with newer tanks in particular.

[Hezzlocks]

For pre-pull regen it's worth noting that overheal emnity has been significantly nerfed while anything a tank does will make mobs glue to them. It's much less of an issue now although still not optimal on dungeon mob pulls.



That can really depend.

If your healer is knowledgeable and knows what mechanics are coming up, this is good play. Why immediately heal yourself or the party if no aoes are coming up in the next 20 seconds? Nothing is going to hit you, so you could be at 1 health and in no danger whatsoever until that mechanic is due. The less experienced healer (or most players to be fair), won't have the order of every mechanic and its timing memorized and be able to resist panic at seeing low health bars. A co-healer might think "wtf why aren't they helping" when in fact they're the ones healing unnecessarily. This is mana efficient and maximizes contribution via damage.

Now of course, if anyone dies, your healer is just loading the work on you and absolutely deserves the blame.

See, in my mind that doesn't really matter. Heal now, heal later, you still need to heal before the next mechanic, or at least before the next unavoidable mechanic. In fact times like these are where HoTs should really shine. Obviously I'm not gonna say put a regen on everyone, thats 8 gcds, but an aoe HoT is just one cast, lets you get back to dps, and should heal people enough to survive the next unavoidable aoe. And if you're using an oGCD to do the aoe heal instead, well, what difference is there in popping it now vs popping it just before the next aoe?