Why are white mages allergic to regen?

[Vahlnir]

Just reading through this thread, with all the (bad) advises and complains, it seems no one asked the most important: is anyone dying?

- If you are a tank: unless you are dying you shouldn't complain. As long as you get heals and not tanking the floor (unless you mess up mechanic yourself) then the healers are doing their job. Do you feel the need to dictate how they heal you, or you're an insecure tank who feel vulnerable unless there is a regen on you?

I never complain about a healer doing their job correctly, but there are some small annoyances regarding the actions of some healers which I've encountered that I have learned to live with. Like you said, if I'm not dying or if no one is dying at all then I can't, and shouldn't, complain. That would be like telling someone "STOP HEALING SO GOOD JEEZ!" I could never do that in good conscience. I just value efficiency above most things, which was why I felt the need to post about regen being used correctly/incorrectly depending on the circumstances. If a healer decides to make my job slightly harder while I'm pulling things then I just suck it up and continue doing what I need to do, and pick up any stray trash when I stop or immediately if they're close.

[Raven2014]

I never complain about a healer doing their job correctly, but there are some small annoyances regarding the actions of some healers which I've encountered that I have learned to live with. Like you said, if I'm not dying or if no one is dying at all then I can't, and shouldn't, complain. That would be like telling someone "STOP HEALING SO GOOD JEEZ!" I could never do that in good conscience. I just value efficiency above most things, which was why I felt the need to post about regen being used correctly/incorrectly depending on the circumstances. If a healer decides to make my job slightly harder while I'm pulling things then I just suck it up and continue doing what I need to do, and pick up any stray trash when I stop or immediately if they're close.

A separate post since this is to the other main complain I see in this thread: about regen pre-pull is bad. I'll tell you this: if I am tanking and you are healing, you are welcome to put Regen + Medica II on my pre-pull, and still no mobs gonna take so much a lick on you. This is actually the issue on the tanks not doing the pull correctly. Most tanks open their pull with a range attack (i.e Tomahawk/Shield Blob/Unmend) before following up with an AOE in the 2nd attack, it's this one GCD between your first and second move that make the mobs peeline to the healer. If you are a tank with this problem, do this: run straight to the pack and do your AOE like Flash as your first attack, then you will NEVER have this problem again. The range attack on the tanks are never meant to be your opener, it's only for picking up stray mobs.

[Vahlnir]

A separate post since this is to the other main complain I see in this thread: about regen pre-pull is bad. I'll tell you this: if I am tanking and you are healing, you are welcome to put Regen + Medica II on my pre-pull, and still no mobs gonna take so much a lick on you. This is actually the issue on the tanks not doing the pull correctly. Most tanks open their pull with a range attack (i.e Tomahawk/Shield Blob/Unmend) before following up with an AOE in the 2nd attack, it's this one GCD between your first and second move that make the mobs peeline to the healer. If you are a tank with this problem, do this: run straight to the pack and do your AOE like Flash as your first attack, then you will NEVER have this problem again. The range attack on the tanks are never meant to be your opener, it's only for picking up stray mobs.

Well, I'd be foolish to ignore constructive criticism. I've always been under the impression that pulling with a ranged attack was the standard, because that's what I've seen other tanks doing all the time. Perhaps I will give this a go, thanks. It certainly makes sense.

[AnimaAnimus]

Idk about whm not using regen, for me they don't use raise or cures at all.

There can be 3 dps dead in Eden, tanks can be at 50%, the sch/ast can be sitting at 100/10000 mp and the whm is all Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare, then the pt wipes and we start the process all over again.

[NanaWiloh]

There are two kinds of groups in this game. Pugs/DF and Static's, you try too heal a pug/DF group like its a static. You are going to find a lot of dead players and be rezzing more then you ever would in a static.

[NanaWiloh]

Idk about whm not using regen, for me they don't use raise or cures at all.

There can be 3 dps dead in Eden, tanks can be at 50%, the sch/ast can be sitting at 100/10000 mp and the whm is all Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare, then the pt wipes and we start the process all over again.

I have notice that as well so many Whm getting lazy and just dpsing. I have had at least 2 whm co-healers in the last week and half who would not help until the party was one aoe away from being killed. Whats really sad is the ones who make no attempt to heal themselves even if they are low on HP..nope you just see there cast bar throwing out dmg abilities. SE should just make Whm a dps and come up with a new healer cause seems everyone playing a whm is treating like a dps with healing ability. I looked whm and honestly you could remove cure 1 ,2, regen, and medica. whm would still be the best healer in the game like they are now.

[Hash_Browns]

A separate post since this is to the other main complain I see in this thread: about regen pre-pull is bad. I'll tell you this: if I am tanking and you are healing, you are welcome to put Regen + Medica II on my pre-pull, and still no mobs gonna take so much a lick on you. This is actually the issue on the tanks not doing the pull correctly. Most tanks open their pull with a range attack (i.e Tomahawk/Shield Blob/Unmend) before following up with an AOE in the 2nd attack, it's this one GCD between your first and second move that make the mobs peeline to the healer. If you are a tank with this problem, do this: run straight to the pack and do your AOE like Flash as your first attack, then you will NEVER have this problem again. The range attack on the tanks are never meant to be your opener, it's only for picking up stray mobs.

Why would you invite bad plays?

[Raven2014]

Idk about whm not using regen, for me they don't use raise or cures at all.

There can be 3 dps dead in Eden, tanks can be at 50%, the sch/ast can be sitting at 100/10000 mp and the whm is all Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare, then the pt wipes and we start the process all over again.

This can be a case of confirmation bias. There are many reason why you see healers still DPS even if there are people dying. Take E4 for example:

- If Swift Cast is 10- seconds out, we most likely gonna wait for it to res.
- Most people die getting knocked of the platform, which usually follow by a long chain of AOE jumping from the boss. We have enough time to cast flare before each move, but we don't have enough time to raise.
- (Lack of) coordination between healers in pug. If we both have to hard cast a raise, chance is one of us gonna cancel it to avoid raising the same people, this could lead to a case where we keep canceling out our raise.

Also just to NOT avoid the big elephant in the room here but ... if the party got to a point where there are so many deaths that the healers can't res them all, then should you really be looking at faulting the healers?

Also I want to advocate something here: even a pro healer will still gonna stret out if there are so many deaths happening. Between hard casting raising, while paying attention to other members still alive (so you don't raise one and lose another), while still have to handle mechanic on their own, a healer can become overwhelmed to a point they may just shut down and DPS on reflex instead (I know that had happenend to me). Yesterday after reset I did something like 14+ run on my 2 characters (one WHM one SCH) and I can tell you on average I had to raise 6+ time per run (some of the E4 runs I had to do 10+ raise), several time I reached the point of "I just don't want to raise any more". So yeah, if the party makes so many mistake that you push the healers to that point ... I don't think you should look at them to find the problem.

Why would you invite bad plays?

Because to me it's not bad play? In fact, unless the WHM know the other trick to make the pull easier, I would welcome a regen on me prepull. It's only bad play if only one or neither know what they are doing, if both parties know what they're doing then it's fantastic.

[Hezzlocks]

A separate post since this is to the other main complain I see in this thread: about regen pre-pull is bad. I'll tell you this: if I am tanking and you are healing, you are welcome to put Regen + Medica II on my pre-pull, and still no mobs gonna take so much a lick on you. This is actually the issue on the tanks not doing the pull correctly. Most tanks open their pull with a range attack (i.e Tomahawk/Shield Blob/Unmend) before following up with an AOE in the 2nd attack, it's this one GCD between your first and second move that make the mobs peeline to the healer. If you are a tank with this problem, do this: run straight to the pack and do your AOE like Flash as your first attack, then you will NEVER have this problem again. The range attack on the tanks are never meant to be your opener, it's only for picking up stray mobs.

I wouldn't say never. I usually do this on every pull anyway but sometimes mobs are spread out enough that you can't get them all in 1 aoe. There's also times when DPS jumps the gun and makes mobs run off sooner than you anticipated, potentially causing you to miss the aoe. That one isn't necessarily a regen issue, but regen can compound the issue.

In those cases instead of running to you allowing you to nab em in your followup aoe, they run to the healer / dps. They SHOULD be running it to you but in my experience when anyone, dps included, draws enmity away from you, they often either try running from the mob, or they ignore it and let it sit there hitting them out of your aoes reach, leaving it up to you to either move to them or use a gcd on a ranged attack anyway.

[SDaemon]

Probably because Afflatus Solace costs 0MP, 100% less than Regen, and heals for 700 potency as well, and nourishes the blood lily.

Or because Afflatus Rapture costs 0MP, 100% less than MedicaII, and heals for 300 potency as well, and nourishes the blood lily.

Or because Tetra costs 0MP, 100% less than Regen, and heals for 700 potency as well.

Or because Assize costs -500MP (read: it restores 500MP), infinitely less than MedicaII, and heals for 400 potency.

Or because Plenary costs 0MP, 100% less than MedicaII, and adds 200 potency to another heal.

Or because Asylum drops a basically free regen on the ground, costing 0MP (100% less than MedicaII), and nobody ever stands in it ever, and then you Rescue them into it and the run back out b/c they like dying, so you decide your mana is better spent on Glare, b/c you're not some AST or SCH peasant and you're far more interested in nourishing the blood lily than keeping an ungrateful player alive. :P

FOR THE BLOOD LILY!