Scholar Aetherflow Issues

[Nethereal]

What second hand information? Career SCHs better than you and I have similar complaints to what I have expressed in this thread: they don't like Aetherflow being locked to combat, nor do they like not having a way to dump excess stacks that doesn't involve blatant overhealing. They also don't like overcapping because that's ultimately a waste of resources. It's Resource Management 101. That's the biggest two complaints I have about SCH currently. Even with only being level 73. I’ve already listed the reasons why I find the Aetherflow lock strange; I won’t list them again. And I’m not one that enjoys wasting resources, so having nothing to get rid of unused stacks is particularly grating for me—and this becomes particularly egregious when synced down, which means it’s probably roughly the same for any SCH leveling from 30 to 80. I’d have to relevel the job on another character to see if that’s truly the case, but that’s what I think currently.

My viewpoint may be from leveling—and it may be from an average SCH’s viewpoint—but I fail to see how that makes it "intellectually dishonest". I believe the word/phrase you're looking for it "uninformed" or perhaps "ill-informed due to not having the whole picture". And, as I said, maybe my opinion will change when I reach level 80. But you neglected that part of my reply.

Again, pardon me for not including skills I don't yet have available to me in my post, and pardon if I was not clear that I was still leveling (though a quick Lodestone search would have shown I wasn't level 80 yet). I didn't mention them because I have no experience with them, and I'm not sure how the SCH experience will be with them. I can only hope it gets better - which, people have said to me that it does (from this thread and from others), so hopefully my own experience will improve. That's the part that seems to have upset you the most about my personal, honest, if not entirely informed from a level 80 perspective, viewpoint of SCH and I can't understand why that is. I already mentioned that I've heard it gets better, but that some of the complaints I have posited here remain. I don't think you saw that any time that I mentioned it.

Honestly it doesn't get any better the higher you level, 74 when you get recitation is probably the highest point out of all your skills.

I re-read your original post that I replied to and read the other posts you had in this thread slowly and completely and I found nothing of you stating your opinion is subject to change or that you're not 80. all I found was that you stated specifically that it was just your opinion. Are you sure you're not confusing threads? If not could you link me to where you said in this thread that your opinion might change as you level that would be much appreciated and would warrant an apology.

Responding to Nethereal:

Because I'm too lazy to quote. Your two main points throughout this thread are everyone except you can't do math, and that healers should heal, right? On that first point, I've only seen a single pretty misguided use of numbers concerning the dps value of whm lillies throughout all your posts. It seem's like you're unaware that you can use lillies to weave for an essentially 225 potency instant cast spell. Or you can use them to move, when you can't cast glare. Or you can use them during downtime when there is no target. Or perhaps you can even hit more than one target with misery. Or maybe you just knew all of this but selectively omitted it to try to forward your point? Next, on reducing the cooldowns of aetherflow skills like another person mentioned. Let me say that I know this is not a good idea, but it has very little to do with math. Since you think that it does, though, where is your math? According to mine, if we took off all cooldowns on aetherflow skills, scholars would get a pitiful 200 more potency of aoe healing per minute. Now responding to your 2nd point that healers should heal. I see a few ways to interpret this. You might be a newer healer, who is still doesn't completely understand how the flow of encounters generally goes in this game for healers. You might be someone who doesn't actually play healers, but is posting on theses healer forums for some reason. You might be deliberately trying to provoke people. I have no idea which it is, but I will say one thing. Any experienced healer who has healed shadowbringers will tell you the same thing: there is hardly anything to heal. I should do my job and heal the team up? The job is already mostly done, and I didn't even have to do anything.

It seems you think I'm against lilies? That's not the case I know exactly what they do and what they're there for it's simply that some people don't respect the whole function of them. Specifically for down time when not having a target, those are only during transitions phases which usually last anywhere between 5 to 15 seconds which isn't enough time to even generate a lily and you'll probably have already used them and are holding a blood lily til the boss comes back, in my experience at least. With the longest time you won't have anything to hit will being around 30-40 seconds and during that time you usually won't be able to move or use any abilities because they're cutscenes, which is only one lily(30 sec). As for being able to hit multiple targets, that's honestly not worth discussing.

In theory you should be able to get off 10 casts of glare in 30 sec making the dps comparsion laughable. Going further it takes 90 seconds to get 3 lilies and another recast before you can use blood lily. Accounting for all this it's possible to get 31 casts of glare in before you even use misery if for arguments sake we say recasts are the same duration as tics. There's a reason Glare will always be your highest dps output. I don't know why you challenge this at all. Even if we were to be fair and say you spent 30 seconds dodging or healing, it still wouldn't be a contest.

Lilies strict function is to reimburse dps lost from healing. It wasn't omitted either it's just such common knowledge I felt no need to waste time typing it out.

As for your comments about aetherflow. The amount of healing per minute is irrelevant in this specific case of removing aetherflow's requirement to make choices on what to use and making it a completely free resource. It's how fast you can heal that matters. Being able to heal 2400 hp in aoe within 2 seconds is not okay and neither is being able to cast excog and sacred soil while still being able to use lustrate. As for healers should heal, it's a very literal statement, if your team is actually dying you should heal them over dpsing, simple as that.

The amount of healing required even though low when doing mechanics properly is irrelevant to the statement as a whole. Rather it seems more taken out of contex or you didn't understand how literally I meant to imply that sentence. If one of your teammates is going to die and you can either A. Use another Glare or B. Save their life, you save their life.

It also doesn't take high math skills to know how to have a constructive conversation either. It does take some literary comprehension though. You're not providing anything other than a offensive opposition, but I'll be sure to have a calculator handy whenever you're around. How about that?

And no, I was never serious about unconstrained aetherflow usage. If you knew how to read you would know my issue is with aetherflow, not its abilities. Also, CDs use the resource of time. No matter how you choose to perform your mental gymnastics, the abilities are still restricted not by one gate, but two, and that is what I have an issue with.

Anything else you would like to instruct me on today senpai?

I'm not providing anything because there's nothing to provide you can't already learn yourself if you spent the time. 10-11 minutes in general, the transition phase if you feel like it. It's not my job to educate you something that's standing infront of you simply because you can't comprehend it.

I know how to read it's just simply that you don't know how to write and you leave things open ended which allows for assumptions to be had based on common knowledge. And not using aetherflow for aetherflow abilities is unconstrained use lel. You have an issue with aetherflow but you don't with the abilities, you want to have your cake and eat it. That's not how the works.
If you have an issue with aetherflow then you need to rebalance the abilities which will no longer use it. They are indeed restricted by two gates but gates aren't resources. If you were talking about restrictions you should've typed that instead of typing "resources". Use the correct words to convey the correct message.
Nothing I can teach someone who doesn't want to teach themselves.

[Lagomorph]

It seems you think I'm against lilies? That's not the case I know exactly what they do and what they're there for it's simply that some people don't respect the whole function of them. Specifically for down time when not having a target, those are only during transitions phases which usually last anywhere between 5 to 15 seconds which isn't enough time to even generate a lily and you'll probably have already used them and are holding a blood lily til the boss comes back, in my experience at least. With the longest time you won't have anything to hit will being around 30-40 seconds and during that time you usually won't be able to move or use any abilities because they're cutscenes, which is only one lily(30 sec). As for being able to hit multiple targets, that's honestly not worth discussing.

In theory you should be able to get off 10 casts of glare in 30 sec making the dps comparsion laughable. Lilies strict function is to reinburse dps lost from healing. It wasn't omitted either it's just such common knowledge I felt no need to waste time typing it out.
The amount of healing per minute is irrelevant in this specific case of removing aetherflow's requirement to make choices on what to use and making it a completely free resource. It's how fast you can heal that matters. Being able to heal 2400 hp in aoe within 2 seconds is not okay and neither is being able to cast excog and sacred soil while still being able to use lustrate. As for healers should heal, it's a very literal statement, if your team is actually dying you should heal them over dpsing, simple as that.
The amount of healing required enough though low when doing mechanics properly is irrelevant to the statement as a whole. Rather it seems more taken out of contex or you didn't understand how literally I meant to imply that sentence. If one of your teammates is going to die and you can either A. Use another Glare or B. Save their life, you save their life.

1. Last I checked you could save your lillies and use all of them during downtime. So in 5 seconds of downtime I could easy use all 3 of them to prepare a misery for when the boss comes back. Why do I need to generate a lily specifically during the down time, do you even know how these work?

2. 10 glare casts in 30 seconds. I guess you're only concerned with hitting a dummy where you don't need to move at all. In cases where I do need to move, I'd sure rather take a 75 potency loss from using a lily as opposed to taking a 300 potency loss from losing a glare. Maybe you'd just rather lose the glare though?

3. You cannot use 6 indoms in 2 seconds, even if it's cooldown were to be removed.

4. Yes, how fast you can cast the heal does matter. Where is the math? You can't just say "you literally can't use math" when you don't do any math yourself. There is no math here.

5. The amount of required healing being low is very relevant here, especially when you're pretending that lillies sole purpose is to heal and that misery only exists to make using them hurt less.

Do you even play healer? There is so much wrong with your post, that I almost didn't feel like even replying to it. To be honest, I'm not really sure why I did.

Edit:

You literally can't use math.

I really don't feel like posting a second time and pointing out everything you said is wrong once again. All I have to say is there are many layers of irony in the above quote. Have a nice day.

Edit 2:

It doesn't matter what you feel like, it doesn't change the fact you don't play this game. Tell you what I'm okay with removing the cool down on indominability just for the meme, I'll use aetherflow wait til it gets off cool down, use recitation, use indominability 4 times, pop aetherflow again use it another 3 times, pop dissipation and use it another 3 times. Honestly sounds like it would make for some nice fireworks. And it would be fun to be the only healer who can put out 4,200 aoe healing in 5 seconds or less.

Woah 10 indoms in 5 seconds. I bet someone doesn't know that it's still not possible even in the way you describe. Why don't you try and use 9 lustrates in 5 seconds and see for yourself. If you can post a video of this I'll even apologize and admit that you're capable of doing math.

[Nethereal]

1. Last I checked you could save your lillies and use all of them during downtime. So in 5 seconds of downtime I could easy use all 3 of them to prepare a misery for when the boss comes back. Why do I need to generate a lily specifically during the down time, do you even know how these work?

2. 10 glare casts in 30 seconds. I guess you're only concerned with hitting a dummy where you don't need to move at all. In cases where I do need to move, I'd sure rather take a 75 potency loss from using a lily as opposed to taking a 300 potency loss from losing a glare. Maybe you'd just rather lose the glare though?

3. You cannot use 6 indoms in 2 seconds, even if it's cooldown were to be removed.

4. Yes, how fast you can cast the heal does matter. Where is the math? You can't just say "you literally can't use math" when you don't do any math yourself. There is no math here.

5. The amount of required healing being low is very relevant here, especially when you're pretending that lillies sole purpose is to heal and that misery only exists to make using them hurt less.

Do you even play healer? There is so much wrong with your post, that I almost didn't feel like even replying to it. To be honest, I'm not really sure why I did.

Wow you are actually special. Saving lilies is one of the worst things you can do.

Are you a time lord? Saving them doesn't change time, merely the window in which you can use them lel. Not using them during the most efficient time is a waste.
You also can't feed the blood lily if you're capped meaning you need to use misery it unless you want to waste another 30 seconds.

@2. Reread my post I accounted for that for fairness.

@3. Aetherflow, use indom 3 times, dissipation, use indom 3 times. Sure it might take 3 seconds, doesn't change anything. Oh I forgot recitation make it 7(2800).

@4. Can you not read? I literally said that in the post you replied to lel.

@5. You can't be helped. That's the literal function. Go check fflogs and see if you can find a single log where misery is top dps on a whm and not glare please, be my guest.

You don't even play this game let alone healer.

For anyone who reads this in the future. Lilies are specifically designed to reimburse whm dps from healing. If you have a lily you use rapture instead of medica 1 or if you would use a cure 2 you use solace instead. The reason for this is because after three uses you will be able to use a 900 potency attack. While they can also be used to weave certain abilities their main purpose as a free resource is to not punish you for healing. This can't be compared to 3 uses of glare which results in 1200 potency and is done over the period of 9 seconds but it does help with healing and eases your dps loss from healing. You can also use them to optimize your dps during movement when dia is already applied.

[galbsadi]

Aetherflow, use indom 3 times, dissipation, use indom 3 times. Sure it might take 3 seconds, doesn't change anything. Oh I forgot recitation make it 7(2800).

You also forgot the 30 second cooldown on Indom, making this impossible, probably because you haven't really played Scholar much at all (or are simply trolling). On a related note, you also can't even do this with Lustrate (1 second cooldown there, bare minimum of about 7-8 seconds for even that assuming perfect play). (For Indom, you're looking at a bare minimum of 3 minutes to get off six indoms...and that's literally using it on cooldown.)

Perhaps you were thinking of Afflatus Rapture for WHM (which only has a 2.5s CD)? (Still couldn't do it in 2-3 seconds 6 times, but they could in theory do it roughly twice as fast as a SCH could if the lily gauge started at full, and add a couple Assize into the mix as well during the same timeframe (which heals the same as Indom while also DPSing and restoring mana).

That's the literal function. Go check fflogs and see if you can find a single log where misery is top dps on a whm and not glare please, be my guest.

Not contesting your point here (I agree), but noting that you tend to play WHM [literally 67% of your healer parses are as WHM, not SCH), so there's likely bias in your assumptions that SCH can do things it can't.

[Nethereal]

I really don't feel like posting a second time and pointing out everything you said is wrong once again. All I have to say is there are many layers of irony in the above quote. Have a nice day.

It doesn't matter what you feel like, it doesn't change the fact you don't play this game. Tell you what I'm okay with removing the cool down on indominability just for the meme, I'll use aetherflow wait til it gets off cool down, use recitation, use indominability 4 times, pop aetherflow again use it another 3 times, pop dissipation and use it another 3 times. Honestly sounds like it would make for some nice fireworks. And it would be fun to be the only healer who can put out 4,200 aoe healing in 5 seconds or less.

You know what. Given the tone of some in this thread, I don’t really think it’s worth me continuing a discussion in here. Anyone who would like to talk about the things I said—give me advice, contest them, agree with them—can message me on Discord.

So I take it you were confused about which thread you said that. Well either way have a nice day.

[HyoMinPark]

So I take it you were confused about which thread you said that. Well either way have a nice day.

It has nothing to do with that. I just don’t think you and I can have a constructive conversation. Especially with the way you’re responding to other posters here. Have a nice evening yourself.

EDIT: just adding this here because I don’t know where I am with my daily post count, and I don’t really want to waste more posts on this.

We can definitely have a constructive conversation if we get off on the right foot. But if you can't count or you're not well versed in the mechanics of the game and you don't admit to it or at least be genuine then it's impossible.

And I do genuinely want to know if you were confused about which thread you posted that in because I couldn't find it anywhere in this thread and I would genuinely like to apologize if I actually missed it.

But that's enough for one day.

No, I really don’t think we can when you resort to insults towards anyone that disagrees with you or tries to contest your viewpoints. You can disagree civilly—and prove people wrong—without saying things such as “are you always this special”. That’s an unnecessary comment and I don’t have much desire to speak with anyone who does that. Despite how heated some arguments I’m involved in can get, I don’t resort to comments like that. Attack the argument. Not the person making the argument.

Unless I’m completely misinterpreting your tone, I don’t think we can converse constructively. I don’t need any apology from you. You can, however, apologize for the things you said to other people.

[Nethereal]

It has nothing to do with that. I just don’t think you and I can have a constructive conversation. Especially with the way you’re responding to other posters here. Have a nice evening yourself.

We can definitely have a constructive conversation if we get off on the right foot. But if you can't count or you're not well versed in the mechanics of the game and you don't admit to it or at least be genuine then it's impossible.

And I do genuinely want to know if you were confused about which thread you posted that in because I couldn't find it anywhere in this thread and I would genuinely like to apologize if I actually missed it.

But that's enough for one day.