Scholar Aetherflow Issues

[galbsadi]

Aetherflow, use indom 3 times, dissipation, use indom 3 times. Sure it might take 3 seconds, doesn't change anything. Oh I forgot recitation make it 7(2800).

You also forgot the 30 second cooldown on Indom, making this impossible, probably because you haven't really played Scholar much at all (or are simply trolling). On a related note, you also can't even do this with Lustrate (1 second cooldown there, bare minimum of about 7-8 seconds for even that assuming perfect play). (For Indom, you're looking at a bare minimum of 3 minutes to get off six indoms...and that's literally using it on cooldown.)

Perhaps you were thinking of Afflatus Rapture for WHM (which only has a 2.5s CD)? (Still couldn't do it in 2-3 seconds 6 times, but they could in theory do it roughly twice as fast as a SCH could if the lily gauge started at full, and add a couple Assize into the mix as well during the same timeframe (which heals the same as Indom while also DPSing and restoring mana).

That's the literal function. Go check fflogs and see if you can find a single log where misery is top dps on a whm and not glare please, be my guest.

Not contesting your point here (I agree), but noting that you tend to play WHM [literally 67% of your healer parses are as WHM, not SCH), so there's likely bias in your assumptions that SCH can do things it can't.

[Jerichai]

Some of you all are seriously out here trying to make SCH simultaneously more OP (healing wise) and more boring to play. Glad you all aren’t developers TBH.

[Taika]

Some of you all are seriously out here trying to make SCH simultaneously more OP (healing wise) and more boring to play. Glad you all aren’t developers TBH.

That's pretty much exactly what SE did with 5.0.

[EaMett]

You ask that but the exact same point applies to dps. I only brought it up because you brought up dps they're just even factors they're equal but you seem to think of healing as being the side mechanic of lilies.

Ok lets get this out of the way. Healing is capped by keeping people alive. The less healing you can do while keeping everyone alive, the better. This is because anything more than this is essentially unnecessary. DPS on the other hand is not capped, and the more dps you provide the faster things die the less you need to heal the less likely you are to hit enrage. It also helps with un-healable mistakes people may make (like OS missed mechanics) by providing backup dps they should be making.
Moving on.

You're completely ignoring the fact they're resource free that fact alone already makes them incomparable to swiftcasted spells. Regardless of that misery is still only 50% of the mechanic whether you like it or not. While the other half is resource free instant healing with yes the advantage to weave.

Currently completely irrelevant. Mana was never an issue for WHM and although it was one for SCH in dungeons the recent AoW change was enough to highly minimize this. SCH has no mana issues in other content though... Not even close to needing more than 20% of our mana. It's also a difficult comparison because SCH was built around the concept of not being able to do much without stacks whereas WHM is perfectly viable in all departments without lilies.

You clearly know that not all weaves are offensive so I don't see why you separated 1 and 3 considering they're the exact same. And again you ignore the healing because of bias and the fact it's a completely free resource. Healing in this game is predictable but even with that it still is equal to dps by definition. You're not going to be clearing any current content fights without some form of healing and vice versa. Lilies by design are supposed to represent the balance between healing and dps but you seem either unwilling or unable to see that due to your bias towards dps. Even if you combined the fact that optimization on healers is largely to increase dps up time the point still stands and you'll never get around that.

I think the issue lies here, I'll go more in detail in the next quote but if you can't separate 1 and 3 then it is either a communication issue on my end or a lack of understanding on yours. 1 never even makes a distinction between healing and dps OGCDs because it's all the same.
OGCDs are a dps loss by nature (kinda). The basic use of an OGCD is by clipping your GCD. Because they have an animation time it offsets your next GCD cast and delays your damage. This creates a dps loss. Weaving an OGCD into another instant skill with appropriate levels of damage (bold for emphasis) is therefore a dps gain compared to glare + clip because you have no loss from the animation (it fits in the gcd window)

This is completely different from 3 which is a mention that it is possible to execute your job (healing AND DPS when talking about afflatus) while moving. They're two very separate things.

Except you're talking about an impossibility so it's irrelevant. If AF didn't heal it would do something else, like on smn. And you seem to not be able to do math either because misery requires 4 gcds before it can even be used and just some simple math you would be able to tell 4x glare is 1200 potency versus misery's 900. The purpose of misery is to refund your dps lost during healing, healing. Why do you not understand this? If you took the healing out afflatus and didn't change misery it would never be used, did you not think about this at all? Strictly speaking using misery is a dps loss the only reason misery is even used is because it heals and refunds the dps lost for doing it, why are you so biased you are unable to see this? Can you not see the balance between dps and healing from the way lilies function alone? The reason misery is a dps gain is because the time you would spend healing is recovered from the three HEALING lilies used prior to using misery.

AF used to do something else and we wouldn't be having this conversation if it still did.

This is where your math falls short. Misery is 900 pot, Glare is 300 pot. Because you need 4 GCDs for misery that's 225 pot per afflatus GCD.
Now when it comes to OGCDs, lets consider a standard .8s animation time. You have bene, tetra, assize, asylum. Assize should be used on cooldown. And never delayed more than 10s if even that. Depending on your healer comp asylum and tetra should also be used pretty close to their cooldown times.

With that in mind we can already say that even if you 100% overheal your afflatus skills, when mobile and unable to cast anything else, it's your most potent DPS skill. If you're running around not being able to cast (titan car mode in eden)? Just spam your afflatus rapture or solace, that's as if you were a SCH casting Ruin II.

Now, what if you're stationary and can cast glare? If you clip your glare to use your ogcds (Lets say you only need to use one ogcd). That's 300 potency over the span of 3.3 s (2.5 gcd and .8 clip animation). That's 300/3.3 = 90 potency per second. Compare that to an afflatus skill + clip where the clip animation fits within the gcd: 225/2.5 = 90 potency per second. You're falling exactly even. This can turn into a DPS gain if you have a relatively high ping, if you cast Misery on more than one target (which btw would be so massive it would be a dps gain over just glare with no clips) or if you cast misery during a buff window.

What if you need to use two ogcds (assize and tetra for example)? That would be glare + 2 clip > 300/4.1 = 73 potency per second vs 225/2.5 = 90 potency per second. It's a dps gain by a significant margin.
The rule here is that you should always cast afflatus skills before your ogcds, in the worst case scenario it's just the same as clipping but in many others it's a dps gain.

And this is without even looking at the healing component. Hence why I said you would still use this suit of skills even if they didn't heal. You would just use them as a better version of SCH Ruin II. But the gameplay would be essentially the same.

If you are stationary and have nothing to weave you'd have absolutely no reason to use afflatus if it weren't for misery.

Afflatus is a DPS uptime tool, that's all it is. The fact that it heals just means it's easier to use, but the healing is secondary to the DPS component. As I've explained before, it's made obvious from the fact that removing misery would be more detrimental than removing the healing.

[EaMett]

That's pretty much exactly what SE did with 5.0.

Haha exactly. SCH healing is so OP right now but a bore to play.

[Nethereal]

You also forgot the 30 second cooldown on Indom, making this impossible, probably because you haven't really played Scholar much at all (or are simply trolling). On a related note, you also can't even do this with Lustrate (1 second cooldown there, bare minimum of about 7-8 seconds for even that assuming perfect play). (For Indom, you're looking at a bare minimum of 3 minutes to get off six indoms...and that's literally using it on cooldown.)

Perhaps you were thinking of Afflatus Rapture for WHM (which only has a 2.5s CD)? (Still couldn't do it in 2-3 seconds 6 times, but they could in theory do it roughly twice as fast as a SCH could if the lily gauge started at full, and add a couple Assize into the mix as well during the same timeframe (which heals the same as Indom while also DPSing and restoring mana).




Not contesting your point here (I agree), but noting that you tend to play WHM [literally 67% of your healer parses are as WHM, not SCH), so there's likely bias in your assumptions that SCH can do things it can't.

People like you who can't read are part of the problem. And your assumption I have a bias against Sch because of 8 runs of current normal content is both hilarious and sad. Ever heard of being impartial?

1. Last I checked you could save your lillies and use all of them during downtime. So in 5 seconds of downtime I could easy use all 3 of them to prepare a misery for when the boss comes back. Why do I need to generate a lily specifically during the down time, do you even know how these work?

2. 10 glare casts in 30 seconds. I guess you're only concerned with hitting a dummy where you don't need to move at all. In cases where I do need to move, I'd sure rather take a 75 potency loss from using a lily as opposed to taking a 300 potency loss from losing a glare. Maybe you'd just rather lose the glare though?

3. You cannot use 6 indoms in 2 seconds, even if it's cooldown were to be removed.

4. Yes, how fast you can cast the heal does matter. Where is the math? You can't just say "you literally can't use math" when you don't do any math yourself. There is no math here.

5. The amount of required healing being low is very relevant here, especially when you're pretending that lillies sole purpose is to heal and that misery only exists to make using them hurt less.

Do you even play healer? There is so much wrong with your post, that I almost didn't feel like even replying to it. To be honest, I'm not really sure why I did.

Edit:



I really don't feel like posting a second time and pointing out everything you said is wrong once again. All I have to say is there are many layers of irony in the above quote. Have a nice day.

Edit 2:



Woah 10 indoms in 5 seconds. I bet someone doesn't know that it's still not possible even in the way you describe. Why don't you try and use 9 lustrates in 5 seconds and see for yourself. If you can post a video of this I'll even apologize and admit that you're capable of doing math.

3. You cannot use 6 indoms in 2 seconds, even if it's cooldown were to be removed. Why would I make a video for you when not only did I not say that but you can easily test it yourself? Why do you have to be so ignorant?

Ok lets get this out of the way. Healing is capped by keeping people alive. The less healing you can do while keeping everyone alive, the better. This is because anything more than this is essentially unnecessary. DPS on the other hand is not capped, and the more dps you provide the faster things die the less you need to heal the less likely you are to hit enrage. It also helps with un-healable mistakes people may make (like OS missed mechanics) by providing backup dps they should be making.
Moving on.




Currently completely irrelevant. Mana was never an issue for WHM and although it was one for SCH in dungeons the recent AoW change was enough to highly minimize this. SCH has no mana issues in other content though... Not even close to needing more than 20% of our mana. It's also a difficult comparison because SCH was built around the concept of not being able to do much without stacks whereas WHM is perfectly viable in all departments without lilies.




I think the issue lies here, I'll go more in detail in the next quote but if you can't separate 1 and 3 then it is either a communication issue on my end or a lack of understanding on yours. 1 never even makes a distinction between healing and dps OGCDs because it's all the same.
OGCDs are a dps loss by nature (kinda). The basic use of an OGCD is by clipping your GCD. Because they have an animation time it offsets your next GCD cast and delays your damage. This creates a dps loss. Weaving an OGCD into another instant skill with appropriate levels of damage (bold for emphasis) is therefore a dps gain compared to glare + clip because you have no loss from the animation (it fits in the gcd window)

This is completely different from 3 which is a mention that it is possible to execute your job (healing AND DPS when talking about afflatus) while moving. They're two very separate things.


AF used to do something else and we wouldn't be having this conversation if it still did.

This is where your math falls short. Misery is 900 pot, Glare is 300 pot. Because you need 4 GCDs for misery that's 225 pot per afflatus GCD.
Now when it comes to OGCDs, lets consider a standard .8s animation time. You have bene, tetra, assize, asylum. Assize should be used on cooldown. And never delayed more than 10s if even that. Depending on your healer comp asylum and tetra should also be used pretty close to their cooldown times.

With that in mind we can already say that even if you 100% overheal your afflatus skills, when mobile and unable to cast anything else, it's your most potent DPS skill. If you're running around not being able to cast (titan car mode in eden)? Just spam your afflatus rapture or solace, that's as if you were a SCH casting Ruin II.

Now, what if you're stationary and can cast glare? If you clip your glare to use your ogcds (Lets say you only need to use one ogcd). That's 300 potency over the span of 3.3 s (2.5 gcd and .8 clip animation). That's 300/3.3 = 90 potency per second. Compare that to an afflatus skill + clip where the clip animation fits within the gcd: 225/2.5 = 90 potency per second. You're falling exactly even. This can turn into a DPS gain if you have a relatively high ping, if you cast Misery on more than one target (which btw would be so massive it would be a dps gain over just glare with no clips) or if you cast misery during a buff window.

What if you need to use two ogcds (assize and tetra for example)? That would be glare + 2 clip > 300/4.1 = 73 potency per second vs 225/2.5 = 90 potency per second. It's a dps gain by a significant margin.
The rule here is that you should always cast afflatus skills before your ogcds, in the worst case scenario it's just the same as clipping but in many others it's a dps gain.

And this is without even looking at the healing component. Hence why I said you would still use this suit of skills even if they didn't heal. You would just use them as a better version of SCH Ruin II. But the gameplay would be essentially the same.

If you are stationary and have nothing to weave you'd have absolutely no reason to use afflatus if it weren't for misery.

Afflatus is a DPS uptime tool, that's all it is. The fact that it heals just means it's easier to use, but the healing is secondary to the DPS component. As I've explained before, it's made obvious from the fact that removing misery would be more detrimental than removing the healing.

Though I don't agree with all of this it is very informative and I actually learned something from it.
I still disagree that the healing is secondary to the dps because even if misery was removed you would still use it. Granted it's a fact removing misery would be more detrimental overall than removing the healing but I think that's more of an opinion clash.

[EaMett]

Though I don't agree with all of this it is very informative and I actually learned something from it.
I still disagree that the healing is secondary to the dps because even if misery was removed you would still use it. Granted it's a fact removing misery would be more detrimental overall than removing the healing but I think that's more of an opinion clash.

I'm not here to bash on actually healing or saying it's bad or that afflatus healing is pointless, because it isn't. I'm just riding the point that there's just so much you can do with healing and that beyond that point optimizing means pulling more DPS. And in that context afflatus is a great DPS tool.

The healing is still important of course. For instance, if you're a sch/whm comp it's better for the whm to heal with afflatus whenever he/she can rather than the sch using an ogcd. Because the WHM's loss is roughly equivalent to the SCH but the Misery windows (buff/multitarget) can make up for that.
If the healing required means using an afflatus skill and a sch ogcd together, then it's better for the SCH to use two ogcds and the WHM not heal at all. Optimizing is going to be a dancing act around those lines. But yeah due to the nature of the game it's always going to revolve around the dps.

Edit: reviewed my incorrect math.

[Lagomorph]

Why would I make a video for you when not only did I not say that but you can easily test it yourself? Why do you have to be so ignorant?

I don't need to test something that I know is impossible. You're the one making the ridiculous claim, so the burden of proof lies with you. You either tested it and found out that you're wrong, or you didn't test it and you still have no idea why it's impossible. Like I said show me 9 lustrates in 5 seconds and I'll take some of the ridiculousness you've been posting in this thread seriously. Good luck, lol

[Hatstand]

A while a side note, the justification that not having aerherflow accessible outside of combat will prevent groups from having to wait for aetherflow to come off cooldown doesn't hold water. If I was going to make my group wait, I'd still make them wait under the new system, so I could press aetherflow as soon as the combat started. There is actually no justification I can think of for this change.

[Nethereal]

I don't need to test something that I know is impossible. You're the one making the ridiculous claim, so the burden of proof lies with you. You either tested it and found out that you're wrong, or you didn't test it and you still have no idea why it's impossible. Like I said show me 9 lustrates in 5 seconds and I'll take some of the ridiculousness you've been posting in this thread seriously. Good luck, lol

This is why you're so special. It's honestly not even about reading comprehension at this point your psychosis is just so bad you put words in my mouth to make yourself feel better.
Can you find me anywhere in the world, saying you could use lustrate 9 times in 5 seconds? I never said that. Anyway I won't be replying to you anymore so get your last word in.

A while a side note, the justification that not having aerherflow accessible outside of combat will prevent groups from having to wait for aetherflow to come off cooldown doesn't hold water. If I was going to make my group wait, I'd still make them wait under the new system, so I could press aetherflow as soon as the combat started. There is actually no justification I can think of for this change.

You waited for SMN, not for SCH. And no you wouldn't make them wait under the new system, because you would be in combat. You would get kicked and black listed for doing something so dumb.