How tanking feels post ShB patch

[Valmarus]

Tanks feel like DPS?

Looks at WHM >.>

Tanks have been trying to be like DPS since HW, it seems a little late to try to bring attention to that now. All that changed was SE finally caving on tank stance.

Since it looks like you haven't been around that long I'll offer you a recap. SE is the one that forced dps tanking mentality with Alexander Savage. Pentamelded crafted accessories, tanks competing with melee for STR accessory drops. Exodus of 1000s of players because content was too hard. It all happened back in HW, and the game was forever changed.



And then what? There's nothing else to do after "tanking" other than dealing damage...

Actually I've been around since the closed beta. Actually played v1 if you want to go back that far but I've never really viewed ARR as the same game.

[Critical-Limit]

In FF11 hate control was a big factor. You sometimes had to sub theif to trick the monster into thinking your damage is the tanks damage. Tanks use to have to spam provoke on cool down, if you slacked off you could lose hate.

This game however, hate building isn’t even something to manage anymore. Yes I know before it was just DPS stance all day. But that doesn’t mean it has to go that way. They can make hate building interesting. They just choose not to, cuz it’s easier for “Balance”.

[Bobzitto]

I never claimed that it was the viewpoint of the majority of players. What I said is that there are those who feel that tanking no longer feels like tanking. Also why should the people who wanted hate management be the ones to adapt to the situation when that's how the class initially played, surely the people who want to tank should adapt to the hate management?

Because you're playing a video game, and video games operate within boundaries defined by their developers. And they have decided, likely based on community feedback and their own internal data, that hate management needed to go. So it is gone. It's not about what came first or how it was in the beginning. If you want a game that has that, go play one.

[Valmarus]

Because you're playing a video game, and video games operate within boundaries defined by their developers. And they have decided, likely based on community feedback and their own internal data, that hate management needed to go. So it is gone. It's not about what came first or how it was in the beginning. If you want a game that has that, go play one.

Your logic is still flawed. You're saying that the people who liked it initially as it was shouldn't provide feedback saying how they feel it was a mistake to take that away and make tanking feel bad yet you're saying the reason it was changed is because people who were too lazy to play the job as it was didn't like the way it was so complained until it got changed so the people who liked how it was should just accept that even though the changes were made on feedback made by people who didn't like the way the job was so they complained and got it changed to a form that some people don't like and they shouldn't give feedback on why this is bad because the decision was made on feedback.... see where I'm going with this?

[Bobzitto]

Your logic is still flawed. You're saying that the people who liked it initially as it was shouldn't provide feedback saying how they feel it was a mistake to take that away and make tanking feel bad yet you're saying the reason it was changed is because people who were too lazy to play the job as it was didn't like the way it was so complained until it got changed so the people who liked how it was should just accept that even though the changes were made on feedback made by people who didn't like the way the job was so they complained and got it changed to a form that some people don't like and they shouldn't give feedback on why this is bad because the decision was made on feedback.... see where I'm going with this?

You sure put a lot of words in my mouth there. I like how the other side is "complaining" while you are "providing feedback". You can complain all you want. Like the people pre-5.0 did, I assume (wasn't here, wouldn't know). The truth of the matter is that we don't know how much feedback is taken into account by SE when they make their decisions. If they made this change mainly for balance and streamlining reasons, I doubt you'll see it reversed. If they did it for feedback reasons, then I HIGHLY doubt you'll see it changed.

[Valmarus]

You sure put a lot of words in my mouth there. I like how the other side is "complaining" while you are "providing feedback". You can complain all you want. Like the people pre-5.0 did, I assume (wasn't here, wouldn't know). The truth of the matter is that we don't know how much feedback is taken into account by SE when they make their decisions. If they made this change mainly for balance and streamlining reasons, I doubt you'll see it reversed. If they did it for feedback reasons, then I HIGHLY doubt you'll see it changed.

I don't mean to but words in your mouth but that's how it's sounding when you say "adapt or die" but are also saying "people didn't like the way it was and said so so they changed it".

A complaint is feedback, i was not really intending on trying to paint a distinction; and it is likely the majority of the feedback you're going to get because the people who like what you're doing are rarely going to coem back and say "good job" because you're supposed to be making a product they like in the first place. Positive feedback only really comes when you do something particularly ground breakingly good in the eyes of that person. It actually means that unless you're running a proper control group feedback can never really be trusted, which is why you often find developers not acting on it because it isn't necessarily representative. The people who don't find a problem with it aren't going to post "everything is fine" and are going to be enjoying the actual product itself.

[Bobzitto]

Which is why most game devs tend to take feedback of a bunch of salt. And also why I believe the change was done mostly due to streamlining and balance reasons.

[whiskeybravo]

Never assume that someone's forum character accuratley reflects their experience.

It wasn't an assumption, your avatar clearly states you joined June 2019. So the recap wasn't needed.

You still didn't answer the question. What happens after you accomplish "tanking" the mobs/boss?

Dealing damage is fun, and every job optimizes to deal more damage. It's been said over and over again that the days of tanks just being damage sponges are over. Maintaining threat because a developer emphasizes it doesn't make it interesting.

And that's the difference. "BUT LOOK AT MY AGGRO" isn't near as interesting "LOOK AT THAT 60K FELL CLEAVE"

In my opinion, the only reason anyone would prefer an aggro game over dps game is because they suck at the latter.

[MerlinCross]

It wasn't an assumption, your avatar clearly states you joined June 2019. So the recap wasn't needed.

You still didn't answer the question. What happens when after you accomplish "tanking" the mobs/boss?

Dealing damage is fun, and every job optimizes to deal more damage. It's been said over and over again that the days of tanks just being damage sponges are over. Maintaining threat because a developer emphasizes it doesn't make it interesting.

And that's the difference. "BUT LOOK AT MY AGGRO" isn't near as interesting "LOOK AT THAT 60K FELL CLEAVE"

In my opinion, the only reason anyone would prefer an aggro game over dps game is because they suck at the latter.

Axe the Tank role then. Have a Meaty DPS click at the start of a fight if they want to hold hate the entire time and remove tank swap mechanics then. No on likes Aggro control everyone likes doing damage so just roll the tank Role into DPS already. Let WAR's join the 15 minute DPS wait time already.

Maybe this way I can get DRG to become a Tank since it's odd we get 'medium' armor compared to the heavy tank gear and lighter MNK/SAM/NIN gear.

[whiskeybravo]

Axe the Tank role then. Have a Meaty DPS click at the start of a fight if they want to hold hate the entire time and remove tank swap mechanics then. No on likes Aggro control everyone likes doing damage so just roll the tank Role into DPS already. Let WAR's join the 15 minute DPS wait time already.

Maybe this way I can get DRG to become a Tank since it's odd we get 'medium' armor compared to the heavy tank gear and lighter MNK/SAM/NIN gear.

I mean... There's a pretty big gap between reducing aggro as a "mechanic" and deleting tanks entirely. All I've been saying, at least, is that aggro control isn't some magically interesting mechanic that a whole set of jobs should be designed around. You either have aggro or you don't. Wow so deep.

I understand the sentiment of wanting to be a "tank". I stopped tanking back in HW because of the tank dps meta, I figured if I was supposed act like a dps I might as well be a dps so I switched to DRG main. But at the end of the day, for every 1 person that feels that way there's at least 10 that would rather focus on DPS. It's a numbers game, and SE has to make money. They gave us what the majority of players wanted (and how they played anyways) and it's been a pretty big success. Tanks are as popular as they've ever been (even if some of it came from healer fallout), so it's not like it "doesn't work". It works a lot better, in fact, so OP should just let it go and accept the meta of tanks being a contributing member of the raid team.