How tanking feels post ShB patch

[whiskeybravo]

Axe the Tank role then. Have a Meaty DPS click at the start of a fight if they want to hold hate the entire time and remove tank swap mechanics then. No on likes Aggro control everyone likes doing damage so just roll the tank Role into DPS already. Let WAR's join the 15 minute DPS wait time already.

Maybe this way I can get DRG to become a Tank since it's odd we get 'medium' armor compared to the heavy tank gear and lighter MNK/SAM/NIN gear.

I mean... There's a pretty big gap between reducing aggro as a "mechanic" and deleting tanks entirely. All I've been saying, at least, is that aggro control isn't some magically interesting mechanic that a whole set of jobs should be designed around. You either have aggro or you don't. Wow so deep.

I understand the sentiment of wanting to be a "tank". I stopped tanking back in HW because of the tank dps meta, I figured if I was supposed act like a dps I might as well be a dps so I switched to DRG main. But at the end of the day, for every 1 person that feels that way there's at least 10 that would rather focus on DPS. It's a numbers game, and SE has to make money. They gave us what the majority of players wanted (and how they played anyways) and it's been a pretty big success. Tanks are as popular as they've ever been (even if some of it came from healer fallout), so it's not like it "doesn't work". It works a lot better, in fact, so OP should just let it go and accept the meta of tanks being a contributing member of the raid team.

[MerlinCross]

I mean... There's a pretty big gap between reducing aggro as a "mechanic" and deleting tanks entirely. I'm sure you'd love for the boss to endlessly spin around changing aggro targets while trying to get your positionals off as a DRG.

I understand the sentiment of wanting to be a "tank". I stopped tanking back in HW because of the tank dps meta, I figured if I was supposed acting like a dps I might as well be a dps so I switched to DRG main. But at the end of the day, for every 1 person that feels that way there's at least 10 that would rather focus on DPS. It's a numbers game, and SE has to make money. They gave us what the majority of players wanted (and how they played anyways) and it's been a pretty big success. Tanks are as popular as they've ever been (even if some of it came from healer fallout), so it's not like it "doesn't work". It works a lot better, in fact, so OP should just let it go and accept the meta of tanks being a contributing member of the raid team.

To be fair, I dislike Positionals. Not like actively HATE them but I don't like them much either. I'd rather have the boss/fight control more where I go than my own abilities. Make the Fight my Positionals basically. That and it's really annoying when doing solo content and I can't get those off.

Also Tanks are only more popular now because it's stupidly easy to do thanks to not needing to worry about Aggro anymore and healers can "Just heal like they always wanted to" so most tanks also don't pop CD's as often anymore. Tank is popular because it's a DPS that you don't have to do anything with. And if that's the accepted money making solution that will keep the community happy, might as well Axe the role entirely I say and just let someone be "MT" at the start of a fight. That or just have the PLD do it as it's the 'best one' right now.

There's also "Poster/New boy" flavor of the month as well. Now I'm not saying DRK and GNB are bad, but one is the poster boy of the expansion and the other is shinny new thing. Lot of DRGs and DRK back in Heavensward and lot of RDM and SAM in Stormblood.

I find it kinda funny actually. Community pushes for Tanks to do DPS, tanks get changed to do DPS, and one of the complaints I'm seeing while it isn't very common it's common enough is "Why aren't Dungeon Tanks using CDs?" Why should they, they do sick damage now right that's what the push was for right?

I don't know a good answer or fix is for this but I will say I don't partially feel "Tanky" this expansion outside of TBN but if that doesn't get hit with a nerf bat sooner or later, I'll be surprised. Mind you I say this as a PLD in the 50s and a WAR not too far behind. The lower levels feel a lot worse to me now than they did before so hey, maybe it gets better.

[Bobzitto]

I personally wouldn't mind if tanks had more going on on their side of things. Instead of having them focus so much on DPS, have them focus on survivability. Do away with the concept of tank busters (because having to pop CDs every X seconds for a big hit is so engaging), have mobs hurt a lot more, and make tank rotations focus on defense (skills that increase mitigation, dodge, give shields, heal, w/e, on very short CDS - 10-15s). I'd like to see us have more control over our fates instead of having to wait for our healer to act.

[MerlinCross]

I personally wouldn't mind if tanks had more going on on their side of things. Instead of having them focus so much on DPS, have them focus on survivability. Do away with the concept of tank busters (because having to pop CDs every X seconds for a big hit is so engaging), have mobs hurt a lot more, and make tank rotations focus on defense (skills that increase mitigation, dodge, give shields, heal, w/e, on very short CDS - 10-15s). I'd like to see us have more control over our fates instead of having to wait for our healer to act.

Argument about how people play for big numbers and how Tanks are fully expected to push 100% damage to help beat enrage pops up then.

[Bobzitto]

Argument about how people play for big numbers and how Tanks are fully expected to push 100% damage to help beat enrage pops up then.

In the end it all comes down to design. If they're designed to provide survivability rather than damage, there isn't a raid in this world that would fault them for it.

[Valmarus]

Tanks are as popular as they've ever been (even if some of it came from healer fallout), so it's not like it "doesn't work".

Are they though? Or is it just a case that there are people out there who like you said "why bother" and switched to DPS and the Tank attracted different people? And it's like people keep saying the role of tank is pointless if there's no hate mechanic just scrub tank and give all melee mitigation.

Tanks are only more popular now because it's stupidly easy to do thanks to not needing to worry about Aggro anymore

Personally I think this. And a lot of the game is going more and more down the "I don't really have to learn how to play effectively" route and ultimately it's going to kill off their core player base. Ultimately the type of player that sort of change attracts are the ones that will jump ship for the next big mmo with a low skill ceiling when that comes along. They're not the type of player who are still going strong and making your mmo pay for itself and more when your mmo is 15 years old.

I don't know a good answer or fix is for this but I will say I don't partially feel "Tanky" this expansion.

This is the entire point of my original post that everyone seems to ignore. I mean I have since said the mechanics are terrible but originally all I was after was "do tanks still feel like a tank to you yes/no" type responses not some huge devolved argument.

I'm frankly not sure how you can just "feel like you're a dps".

I mean, if you're tanking correctly, you need to be popping defensive cooldowns, positioning, and supporting your party defensively during party-wide damage, etc. Those are the "meat and potatoes" of tanking.

Because all of that is reliant on hate and you get that through pure DPS now. And popping cooldowns isn't a mechanic that's unique to a tank, you just watch for different things to react to. Positioning is not unique to tanking. They just appear in different forms.

Aggro management never was anything of importance or enjoyment.

Of course it was important. It was easy, not the same as being unimportant. You go stand in your position and pop your cooldowns without having hate and see how much you contribute to the raid. As for unenjoyable I disagree that the concept is unenjoyable though the ease of it made it less so.

[whiskeybravo]

Are they though? Or is it just a case that there are people out there who like you said "why bother" and switched to DPS and the Tank attracted different people? And it's like people keep saying the role of tank is pointless if there's no hate mechanic just scrub tank and give all melee mitigation.

You can spin it however you want but it doesn't change the fact that tanks are about the least in demand role right now. Hardly ever tank bonus on roulettes and every PF for the last couple weeks you have to constantly refresh the finder because tank spots fill up fast. That tells me there are a lot of tanks out there, which means it must be fairly popular. It could be for various reasons, and it doesn't particularly matter which, what matters is that there are a lot of people playing tanks.

It's not perfect, they didn't have to make tanks so 1 dimensional, sure, but you can't say the formula isn't working when in fact it's working better than it ever has.

I'm sorry but the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate how well "damage sponge/aggro mini-game" type tanking would go over compared to what we are seeing now.