How tanking feels post ShB patch

[Bobzitto]

Most tanks did it because they enjoyed that part of the game, because they certainly weren't pulling huge DPS. And every other job generated enough enmity that any lazy tank wouldn't survive in an endgame LS for more than 1 run, or even a exp party. They'd be dropped faster than lolgenbu. And tanking in this game started in the same manner (though stupid easy, which is another issue). And it's a problem they've taken that away because people drawn to tanking because of that aren't going to want to play tanks any more, and maybe not the game. Where as people who only care about numbers could always have played a DPS. And now it's all about DPS for tanks people who used to switch roles because they enjoyed the difference depending on what mood they are in aren't going to get that same experience because DPS and Tank feel the same now to people like that. They've removed a game feature that is important to a good many people in likelihood. I won't disagree that enmity needed fixing but the issue waan't that it was there the issue was that it wasn't a challenge to do it, and it's the challenge that makes things satisfying in the end. And it doesn't matter if people agree with the exact role of a tank, I'm flat out stating that people are feeling this change and that it makes tanking feel off to them. I know this because I feel it and have spoken to other people who agree.

That is a fallacy called anectodal evidence - to take the experience of yourself and those around you and assume it reflects the truth. Even from this post and some other in the forums, which provide a very small sample, we can see that most people are with the change rather than against. Of course, as with any change, there will be people who dislike it. For those, I leave the good old adagio: adapt or die.

Regarding your post about FFXI, I certainly don't know enough of the game to comment on it. Everything I've watched make it seem like a boring snoozefest where you have long periods of downtime between things happening on the fight. If that is indeed the case, I can imagine such a threat system being in place to prevent tanks from accidentally falling asleep midfight.

[Valmarus]

That is a fallacy called anectodal evidence - *snip* For those, I leave the good old adagio: adapt or die.

I never claimed that it was the viewpoint of the majority of players. What I said is that there are those who feel that tanking no longer feels like tanking. Also why should the people who wanted hate management be the ones to adapt to the situation when that's how the class initially played, surely the people who want to tank should adapt to the hate management?

Tanks were played in a way where they use as little enmity generators as possible and use the big DPS moves.

Tanks and healers were forced to adopt this DPS focus by early endgame mechanics that were viewed by the community as badly designed and because people weren't able to outgear it at the time every bit of DPS was required. The design elements that actually required Tank DPS to get through it were eventually phased out but the mindset remained engrained. But that wasn't always the mindset.

Instead of doing great dps, tank were forced into tank stance if they wanted to hold the aggro, they were doing smaller numbers and people stopped playing them because of it, tank stance tanks were bad by a design.

So you're saying that they didn't want the stress of doing what a tank was supposed to do and wanted big shiney numbers? That's a problem with the player not the system. They don't want to do their actual job and just want the quick invites or the prestige of saying "yeah I'm a tank, I'm more important than any DPS". The player is at fault for choosing a role that they are incapable of performing properly, not the role itself.

You simply just cant have really enjoyable DPS jobs and a aggro system to manage for tanks.

Couldn't disagree more. I've known a lot of tanks and played both DPS and Tanks where proper hate management exists and yes it can be stressful (but so could being a DPS in a stun order) with everyone relying on you but it's also enjoyable to succeed, can't handle the stress then pick another role? want flashy numbers; play a DPS? I've tanked 64 man Endgame with only 2 tanks and was pretty happy about it. The problem here wasn't that it existed the problem here was it was too easy and people are still calling it too stressful? Then don't tank. All I'm really hearing when people say "changing stances was stressful and tedious" is "I'm to lazy to do the job of the role I picked". While we're at it lets remove the MP penalty for astral fire because hopping between astral fire and umbral is such a chore. BLM needs DPS it should focus on doing damage, it shouldn't have to worry about stance dancing to do damage.

*waits for the comments that completely miss the point or and the people claiming that this is somehow different to what lazy tanks were demanding*