Dark Knight follow up thread

[TouchandFeel]

A lot of people liked SB DRK, the people that didn't aren't mostly even tank mains.

That's a mighty bold statement there . What proof do you have of this assessment or is it just biased conjecture?
Seriously, what is up with the amount of "No true Scotsman" arguments being tossed out there by people that dislike the rework?
We get it, you and some others liked the Stormblood version of DRK and/or dislike the Shadowbringers rework. That's fine, everyone is allowed to have an opinion. But trying to paint those who don't share your opinion as "not true tanks" or "lesser tanks" is ridiculous.
If you want to argue for your position, argue it's merits. Don't try to elevate yourself by excluding your opposition as not being worthy of having a valid opinion.

[Amon-ster]

I raided with all three tanks in Stormblood, and exclusively played DRK up until Sigmascape launched. It was incredibly dull then. Now you have way more tools at your disposal. Abyssal Drain is something to use in raids now, Double Plunge, Living Shadow, Edge of Darkness, higher overall Black blood building (only gaining 10 per Souleater combo in Stormblood was pure ass when WAR gained what, 20? 30?). An actually fantastic burst window.

All this is much better, in my opinion, than just pressing one button between the same 3 GCDs

[shao32]

That's a mighty bold statement there . What proof do you have of this assessment or is it just biased conjecture?
Seriously, what is up with the amount of "No true Scotsman" arguments being tossed out there by people that dislike the rework?
We get it, you and some others liked the Stormblood version of DRK and/or dislike the Shadowbringers rework. That's fine, everyone is allowed to have an opinion. But trying to paint those who don't share your opinion as "not true tanks" or "lesser tanks" is ridiculous.
If you want to argue for your position, argue it's merits. Don't try to elevate yourself by excluding your opposition as not being worthy of having a valid opinion.

well to be fair most ppl that defend current DRK in the forum now didn't even know how SB/HW DRK works or admitelly declare they didn't play it properly bcs they didn't care in the past, the poster boy call effect really bring a lot of ppl like that and then to make arguments without have idea what they talking about.

[TouchandFeel]

well to be fair most ppl that defend current DRK in the forum now didn't even know how SB/HW DRK works or admitelly declare they didn't play it properly bcs they didn't care in the past, the poster boy call effect really bring a lot of ppl like that and then to make arguments without have idea what they talking about.

You are literally responding to someone who played DRK throughout both Heavensward and Stormblood, posted opinions on those iterations on these very forums, and thinks that the Shadowbringers rework is an improvement. There are also a good number of other posters that have been playing DRK and posting about them since DRK was introduced into the game that are also expressing similar sentiment.
These "most people that like the ShB version of DRK didn't play it in HW or SB" and "most people that like the ShB rework weren't/aren't tank mains" statements are conjecture and I have yet to see any discernible proof to validate them as being anywhere near true.

[shao32]

You are literally responding to someone who played DRK throughout both Heavensward and Stormblood, posted opinions on those iterations on these very forums, and thinks that the Shadowbringers rework is an improvement. There are also a good number of other posters that have been playing DRK and posting about them since DRK was introduced into the game that are also expressing similar sentiment.
These "most people that like the ShB version of DRK didn't play it in HW or SB" and "most people that like the ShB rework weren't/aren't tank mains" statements are conjecture and I have yet to see any discernible proof to validate them as being anywhere near true.

thats why i say "most" not all of them, i tired of see all day the same ppl spreading false info of old DRK.

[TouchandFeel]

thats why i say "most" not all of them.

You have yet to show proof of it being "most".

I have seen a good mixture of people that played DRK before that like the rework and dislike the rework, just like I have seen a good mixture of people new to the job liking or disliking it. That is also based solely on what we are seeing here on the English forums. What I have seen on other forums such as the Japanese forum, is a mostly positive reception with some feedback and change requests that mirror some of what you see on the English forums. This is also not even taking into account all the players that aren't even on the forums.

Unless proper data was gathered and compiled or the disparity between likes and hates was so drastic that the preference of the playerbase was beyond apparent, it is really impossible to say whether most longterm DRK players like or dislike the rework but based on the spread simply from this forum alone, I would definitely not side with most disliking. From what I have seen it is mainly a small group of very vocal posters repeating themselves in multiple threads that are making up the majority of the representation of disliking the rework on these forums.

If I were to place my bets, I would say that it is not a case of either of those extremes and that it is likely fairly equal in how many like the rework and how many dislike the rework, with the majority of players falling somewhere in-between where they like some aspects of the rework but dislike others, leaving them as being generally okay and accepting of it.

[shao32]

You have yet to show proof of it being "most".

I have seen a good mixture of people that played DRK before that like the rework and dislike the rework, just like I have seen a good mixture of people new to the job liking or disliking it. That is also based solely on what we are seeing here on the English forums. What I have seen on other forums such as the Japanese forum, is a mostly positive reception with some feedback and change requests that mirror some of what you see on the English forums. This is also not even taking into account all the players that aren't even on the forums.

Unless proper data was gathered and compiled or the disparity between likes and hates was so drastic that the preference of the playerbase was beyond apparent, it is really impossible to say whether most longterm DRK players like or dislike the rework but based on the spread simply from this forum alone, I would definitely not side with most disliking. From what I have seen it is mainly a small group of very vocal posters repeating themselves in multiple threads that are making up the majority of the representation of disliking the rework on these forums.

If I were to place my bets, I would say that it is not a case of either of those extremes and that it is likely fairly equal in how many like the rework and how many dislike the rework, with the majority of players falling somewhere in-between where they like some aspects of the rework but dislike others, leaving them as being generally okay and accepting of it.

obvously a poll should be done but for 1 old DRK main that like the job like you i see 10 casuals that don't have any idea what they are talking about, the disparity for me is pretty clear, i will only asume a rough 50%-50% like it and dislike it in general, but for my personal experience around 70% that like the job are just ppl that didn't bother with DRK in the past.

saddly you are in the same position.

[Awful]

obvously a poll should be done but for 1 old DRK main that like the job like you i see 10 casuals that don't have any idea what they are talking about, the disparity for me is pretty clear, i will only asume a rough 50%-50% like it and dislike it in general, but for my personal experience around 70% that like the job are just ppl that didn't bother with DRK in the past.

saddly you are in the same position.

There's already been a poll that I listed and it's not a biased population like the forums it's actual people who gave feedback and enjoy it, hell I enjoy it I just prefer GNB more but I do jump into EX pugs to test DRK out and on Innocence EX it feels pretty good since you'll always have TBN for your co-tank. Design like that (to me anyways) is great I can shield my co-tank and get dmg out of it? Great. I can also Living Dead the tethers in Titania EX and then my WHM Benedicts me? Pretty snazzy.

There's a lot of cheeky things you can do with DRK and while most of the complaints is Delirium, which I can see why but here's the thing about DRK which has nothing to do with casuals or hardcore players it's the general direction of DRK and that's no one, not even the devs have a clue of what they want. There's so many ideas and things being thrown out everyday of class fantasy and ideas where I'd argue that class fantasy has never been stronger, I guess to each their own but I started DRK in HW and after raiding with it I can say that SB is just the worst.

I would like to see the 70% of people that dislike DRK because everyone I've talked to really enjoy the job and love the changes, the only complaints I hear are about Delirium, TBN not gotten sooner, and MP generation other than those complaints I haven't talked to someone in my FC/in game that was like "omg new DRK is so bad" if anything all I've heard is how AST is in a bad spot same with SCH

[shao32]

There's already been a poll that I listed and it's not a biased population like the forums it's actual people who gave feedback and enjoy it, hell I enjoy it I just prefer GNB more but I do jump into EX pugs to test DRK out and on Innocence EX it feels pretty good since you'll always have TBN for your co-tank. Design like that (to me anyways) is great I can shield my co-tank and get dmg out of it? Great. I can also Living Dead the tethers in Titania EX and then my WHM Benedicts me? Pretty snazzy.

There's a lot of cheeky things you can do with DRK and while most of the complaints is Delirium, which I can see why but here's the thing about DRK which has nothing to do with casuals or hardcore players it's the general direction of DRK and that's no one, not even the devs have a clue of what they want. There's so many ideas and things being thrown out everyday of class fantasy and ideas where I'd argue that class fantasy has never been stronger, I guess to each their own but I started DRK in HW and after raiding with it I can say that SB is just the worst.

I would like to see the 70% of people that dislike DRK because everyone I've talked to really enjoy the job and love the changes, the only complaints I hear are about Delirium, TBN not gotten sooner, and MP generation other than those complaints I haven't talked to someone in my FC/in game that was like "omg new DRK is so bad" if anything all I've heard is how AST is in a bad spot same with SCH

that poll can't show precise results about DRK for the call effect of the expansion, many ppl just jum to the job bcs warrior of darkness, so that poll can't show detail info of HW/SB mains, if they like it or not or they are ok but wish they change things like the ones you say that are the most complains, ect ect.

so that poll show many like the job, ok so how many are just new DRKs? how many did care about the job in the past and not just play WAR until this dark warrior was released? you know we miss all that data and the level of ppl satisfacted about the job is inflated by all this ppl.

so coming to the main topic the rework and the consecuences, i just saw many old DRK mains migrating to GNB not only in the forum but in my FC and the LS of all hispanic FCs of chaos apart of other non spanish speacking friends i have and i non trying to exagerate bcs of all my FC only 1 is ok with the change and the rest DRK mains 7 in total migrate to GNB including me.
this rework come at the cost of the fun of a lot of ppl that love the job before specially in HW but many defend the job and say is a lot of fun with is fine of course but many of then defend it with false info "DRK is super fast now" "delirium and other stuff was useless before" ect ect, so the main question is ¿how many old DRKs mains are being sacrified for this rework getting filled of casuals that "love" the job (not all casuals)? ¿is the old mains opinion who stay with the job and love it for 4 years means nothing now? ¿it's ok tho eat this dark warrior and dealt with it 2 years? i belive the veterans deserve more credit about they opinions that ppl just freely jump to the job now, 4 years of maining DRK count much more that the 2 weeks we have with this version, DRK was my fav job by a large margin and if it wasn't for GNB i would stop tanking complety bcs i dislike a lot the spam gameplay.

note DRK is not bad in terms of performance, it's just a question of gameplay not numbers.

[DRKoftheAzure]

I raided with all three tanks in Stormblood, and exclusively played DRK up until Sigmascape launched. It was incredibly dull then.

How was it dull? Aside from spamming Souleater combo until all of your cooldowns were? I actually had to alternate between Power Slash and Souleater combo just so I didn't feel bored, which felt better to do once Power Slash got buffed.

Now you have way more tools at your disposal. Abyssal Drain is something to use in raids now, Double Plunge, Living Shadow, Edge of Darkness, higher overall Black blood building (only gaining 10 per Souleater combo in Stormblood was pure ass when WAR gained what, 20? 30?). An actually fantastic burst window.

Except The Blackest Night gave 50 Blood when the shield broke, whereas now it's more of a hindrance than of help... also DRK have even less tools to use now... also good to know that you're one of the people asked for more Fell Cleave spam on all tanks...

All this is much better, in my opinion, than just pressing one button between the same 3 GCDs

Oh, you mean like most tanks do now anyways? Let's not forget that when ARR launched PLD had spam 1-2-3 for endgame DPS rotation when all of their cooldowns weren't up, with the occasional Shield Swipe, which a lot of people didn't like back in those days...


I would rather not go back to that era of DPS rotations for the first 50 levels and beyond on tanks, thank you very much.