Expectations are ruining this game

[Nariel]

If you have to constantly vote abandon on old content you get for example via roulettes because people lack basic game skills, we have a very big problem.

This entire mentality of "i don't need to learn to play, others will carry me, and if they criticize me i will report and get them banned" needs to end.

You make it look terrible while this kind of instances happen maybe once in a month if you're not lucky. Or you're so unlucky I'd rather not staying in the same DC to avoid the god of misfortune blessing.

I never, NEVER wiped more than twice in a dungeon in the last 4 years. Raid, sure its a mess first week, primal too sometime... But THAT bad... hell no.

And it even more rare when its something a 1 min fight explanation can't beat.

[MPK]

Like I said, I understand the frustration. But I'm the kind of person who doesn't want to know ANYTHING before doing something. Even with raids.

Sounds like a personal problem. You're kinda putting yourself above all others which isn't a good mindset.

[MomomiMomi]

That's what I say. But they honestly feel like if they don't know what to do as a tank, that they shouldn't do it. And it's taking a lot of the fun out of it.

Sorry to hear that you and your fiance are going though this, but "they feel like" is a problem that they themselves have created. No, I'm not blaming them. They probably have anxiety, which if they do, I understand as a person who has had to deal with anxiety for years. But this is simply a problem that they themselves must overcome. Don't put the blame onto the community for a perceived expectation on your part that isn't an actual expectation of the community.

[CorbinDallas]

As you said, its a MMO. Its a time consumming type of game. If you don't have time to play it its your own fault. The dungeon have 90 min timer, if you don't have at least half this time you shoudl reconsider tagging along.

An MMO where they have designed pretty much everything in a "sandbox" nature to do in bite sized chunks, due to the very nature of players having limited time to play.

[Vidu]

Abbandon vote is stil a thing.

So are vote-kicks - aka: if a run is going badly enough to vote abbandon you might aswell vote-kick the person resonpsible for slowing the whole party down first...

On the matter at hand: personally I rarely experienced new people getting yelled at or getting yelled at myself when being a new person. And me and my boyfriend are running all content blind aswell... I also respect people who want to run content blind - given that they have the "skills" for that, by which I mean: Being able to decipher fights quickly and a basic understanding of the game, their job and general mechanics appropriate for their level.
So I'd be extremly curious to know in which situations people are running into trouble. Because lets face it: most fights are a re-mix of already known mechanics. Someone might be new to a fight but certain mechanics stay the same: AoEs, stack-markers, theter-breaking, "turn your back when the big bad eye appears"... someone might be new to a dungeon but if they die (several times) to a mechanic that is already known to them because it was used in 5 dungeons already, they'll get called out for that. The fight(s) might be new, the mechanics often arent.
So I feel there is a big difference between calling someone out whos new in Sastasha to calling someone out whos new in the Vault, yet still messes up mechanics that should already be known - hence why I'm wondering what the situations are in which such rudeness occurs...

That's what I say. But they honestly feel like if they don't know what to do as a tank, that they shouldn't do it. And it's taking a lot of the fun out of it.

This also depends on context - I'm right there with you that thats a bad attitude when we're talking about a newbie tank up to level 50 - but if someone doesnt know how to play a tank at level 50, if they didnt learn how to do that during their leveling process then yeah, maybe they shouldnt play a tank.
To me there is a certain limit of "I'm new and dont know what I'm doing" - past a certain point your teammates should rightfully expect that you know the basics of your job and have a grasp of the general mechanics the game repeats over and over.

[Kaethra]

A game where the playerbase is so coddled that you can't even offer constructive criticism without them crying to Uncle Yoshi and getting you banned for toxicity and ruining their immersion.

Do you have a source to back that up? Have you been banned for this before?

Like much of any argument on these forums, claims of bans are usually all talk (just for the record, I'm not saying you are one of those, despite my initial sentence.. I'm sort of agreeing with you, so don't get defensive or take offense to what I'm saying). If they say they are going to report you, I'll even wager they don't know how to file the proper ticket for that. The only ingame method of reporting is for RMT activity. Meaning they've got to login to mogstation, then if they even remember the name of the one who hurt their feelings, type that name in and explain why they got their feelings hurt.

In my experience, I've not been banned in game or even warned because of hurting someone's feelings. So I'm interested to know how little SE will actually action for, if someone takes the time and effort to login on a website.

But assuming SE has the industry standard of innocent until found guilty, they're going to look at the log and see what was said. Sure.. if you said a mean thing or called someone a name they might warn you. But if you laid out a mechanic and said how to do it. I doubt harm or foul will be found.

My favorite is when people threaten to report if they get booted for no reason. I typically group with friends and so getting a trouble maker out of a group is pretty simple. And in those cases, they don't even see why they were booted. They get told the mechanics, get told where they messed up, and if they don't conform, they get removed from the dungeon. Not much to report us there for. And if they're particularly a real jerk (could even be doing the mechanics properly, we just don't like them), we just boot them without a word. Not much to be reported there either. GM is going to be like, "what? I just see the person who reported being a jerk, and no one said anything in chat."

The wonders of Discord and VoIP. Can say all kinds of nasty and rich things about people they can't report us for. Hell there's even posting of the forbidden parses in there. Imagine that.


In my experience, newbies do fine. They screw up once or twice, but then they get it. Run goes quickly, run goes smoothly for the most part. My issue is with the entitled folk that know the fights. Done them a few dozen times. Get cocky, get complacent, and even worse, get arrogant enough to think they don't have to do certain things. Believing others will simply carry them through. Those get booted. Don't need any time with them. I don't want to group with them, I don't want my efforts to benefit them. I've made my choice about those people and they simply can languish with booted penalties for all I care.

Thankfully those types of people are relatively rare. Unfortunately they spoil the whole barrel. If it weren't for them, we wouldn't have this thread. They give newbies unneeded anxieties that they wouldn't have otherwise.

[zcrash970]

Like I said, I understand the frustration. But I'm the kind of person who doesn't want to know ANYTHING before doing something. Even with raids. I don't want to know. If you can't handle new people not knowing, then you need to reevaluate yourself. Or like. Explain how it works before jumping in. The game literally tells you that there are new people when you start.

If you feel that way, especially with raids and ex primals, you need to be prepared to be kicked or refused entrance in a group. Dungeons are ok to go in 100% blind as long as you know basic mechanics like stack markers.

[Nariel]

If you feel that way, especially with raids and ex primals, you need to be prepared to be kicked or refused entrance in a group. Dungeons are ok to go in 100% blind as long as you know basic mechanics like stack markers.

To be fair, full blind training party are common in the party finder for Ex primal or savage raid. Normal raid are glorified dungeon/trial barely going blind is still quite safe if you're not the lower tier of bad player.

[CorbinDallas]

snip

I'm slightly exaggerating, but surely you've noticed from the general forum user base that anything even remotely critical is seen as a malicious personal attack? The exact same thing happens in game all the time.

As for SE policy? From what I hear it's the complete opposite. Guilty and smacked with the banhammer first, then a long and arduous process of getting unbanned without removing the mark from your history. There was a case not too long ago where someone got dragged to GM jail and banned over something they weren't even aware of, automatically made FC leader without their knowledge, and the company profile using foul language, which they offered to rectify. But nope, banned, strike forever there on their account.

I stand by what I said, and the ToS rewrite not so long ago just made it worse. This player base is so quick to cry foul that you can't even breathe without offending someone.

[Mistyregions]

If you have to constantly vote abandon on old content you get for example via roulettes because people lack basic game skills, we have a very big problem.

This entire mentality of "i don't need to learn to play, others will carry me, and if they criticize me i will report and get them banned" needs to end.

Do we want equality? Or do we want to skill gate content? We as a player base cant do both. As a designer, making the game available to a wide amount of players inevitably dilutes the skill base. Keeping a skill gate, concentration of skill occurs but, then you can't have millions of players.

A real life equivalent is education. You can make it available to everyone, but then you cant teach the same high quality content, the same way you can to a higher skillset of people. You "could" attempt to teach normal people advanced physics and what you get is,l similar to what is happening in our game.
Rando people show up in savage or extremes and only get in because we made it available through ilvl. Unfortunately some peoples desires are not more important than the rules/structure of society/video game.

I desire to be world first, but I would never ask square to make the game easier for me. I desire to be a astronaut but I would never complain that NASA makes it to hard.

I believe, we should have individual skill gates, followed by regular team based skill gates. You can't get past it? Then you don't get to do it.