If you thought the healer DPS debate would change with the change...

[Sebazy]

But it's the cruel and toxic players trying to "force* healers to dps that are gonna bring it down on everyone.

Because it's only the pro DPS crowd that are toxic right?

There are plenty of examples of no DPS sorts that have pulled stunts every bit as foul as the pro DPS side. Please stop trying to pretend that only one side of the coin has it's overly extremist views because that's categorically untrue and a flat out lie on your part.

[TaranTatsuuchi]

They will never lock healers out of DPSing in group content because they’re smart enough to realize there would be a riot over it.

Mass healer Exodus!

And those that are left will play ast just so they can play with cards to have something to do...

[Joven]

This discussion is so silly. You all talk about the same thing, but you each have your own context in mind.

In any given fight, the amount of healing you do depends on the players in your group.
In any given fight, healing can be anywhere between scripted to completely unpredictable, depending on the players in the group.

I don't think the "Focus on healing" side is saying you should idle when there is no damage going out.
I don't think the "Focus on dps" side is saying you should dps as if you're fighting the enrage timer of a savage fight.
Reducing the other side to their extreme is pointless and stupid.

This idle healer thing is a rarity. What I've generally found is that healers who "focus on healing" tend to adapt to their group as the dungeon progresses. If people are not taking unnecessary damage, they usually start DPSing.
The times I see it happen with any relevant frequency, is with sprouts who are just getting used to the controls and are not used to focusing on multiple things at the same time. If you get mad that a sprout healer who's been playing for 2 days is idling in Sastasha, I don't know what to say to you.

Here's a statement I think reasonable: in any given fight - heal what needs to be healed, dps when you're comfortable doing so.

Here's some general advice to healers having trouble with DPS uptime: in the vast majority of content mechanics are fairly spaced out - you do not need to heal immediately after damage comes out. Once you've healed, it's generally safe to start dpsing.


Finally, healers seem to be singled out in this sort of discussion. So here's a few random statements:

If you're a DPS pulling 6k, you have no business complaining about your healer pulling 2k.
If you complain about the healer pulling 2k but not about the DPS pulling 6k, you're applying double standards.
If you complain about the so-called "idle healer", but not about their DPS/Tank equivalents, you're applying double standards.

Some people perform better or worse than others due to factors that are too many to list. That is the reality of duty finder. Deal with it or get some friends.

Sshhhhhhh, you're not allowed to use common sense around here.

[ADVSS]

Sshhhhhhh, you're not allowed to use common sense around here.

For real as if anyone cares what happens in DF pug groups as long as no body is dying. If you were unwilling to enter as a healer, level a healer, or even care to heal, it is your fault that you got a healer that wasnt going to run it your way. I'm personally only worried about them letting people die left and right, and/or typing snarky things or whining in chat, causing problems. It doesnt even sound cool anymore, now that CS is gone. Those were the days, you really KNEW your healer was going to deal some big D DPS when you heard that thing go off. Bonus points when it was actually a STANCE.

[Ftail]

Why are we still arguing about this in 2019?

[fogboundturtle]

This discussion is so silly. You all talk about the same thing, but you each have your own context in mind.

In any given fight, the amount of healing you do depends on the players in your group.
In any given fight, healing can be anywhere between scripted to completely unpredictable, depending on the players in the group.

I don't think the "Focus on healing" side is saying you should idle when there is no damage going out.
I don't think the "Focus on dps" side is saying you should dps as if you're fighting the enrage timer of a savage fight.
Reducing the other side to their extreme is pointless and stupid.

This idle healer thing is a rarity. What I've generally found is that healers who "focus on healing" tend to adapt to their group as the dungeon progresses. If people are not taking unnecessary damage, they usually start DPSing.
The times I see it happen with any relevant frequency, is with sprouts who are just getting used to the controls and are not used to focusing on multiple things at the same time. If you get mad that a sprout healer who's been playing for 2 days is idling in Sastasha, I don't know what to say to you.

Here's a statement I think reasonable: in any given fight - heal what needs to be healed, dps when you're comfortable doing so.

Here's some general advice to healers having trouble with DPS uptime: in the vast majority of content mechanics are fairly spaced out - you do not need to heal immediately after damage comes out. Once you've healed, it's generally safe to start dpsing.


Finally, healers seem to be singled out in this sort of discussion. So here's a few random statements:

If you're a DPS pulling 6k, you have no business complaining about your healer pulling 2k.
If you complain about the healer pulling 2k but not about the DPS pulling 6k, you're applying double standards.
If you complain about the so-called "idle healer", but not about their DPS/Tank equivalents, you're applying double standards.

Some people perform better or worse than others due to factors that are too many to list. That is the reality of duty finder. Deal with it or get some friends.

So I am a "idling healer" because I am mostly undergeared when I do dungeon and I am still struggling with my mp pool at times. So I might throw some BIO from time to time but i mostly focus on healing throughout the dungeon. I've been successful in all the dungeon with did using that method. I apologize if it's not fast enough for you. This is how I roll. I care about making it till the end.

btw, last night only me (SCH) and the 2 tank were left in the battle and I ran out of MP while lucid dream was a on CD. Dungeon boss has 15% HP left. It was amazing that we managed to pull this off. My Lucid Dream kicked in at the right moment and we pulled through.

[Alphras]

If you are healing then you are not idle and no one tries to force healers to dps if actual healing is required. I think Larias explanation is pretty spot on and easy to understand.

[Thorbot]

I personally like to push dps as healer because I am just OCD about efficiency. I don't like to idle around and there's no need to heal when no healing is needed. But I won't ever push this on another healer unless we're not meeting the enrage then I will ask them to dps more (assuming it's not just one of the dps or tanks not pulling their weight).

[DarkEiraStar]

I find standing around doing nothing boring, so I DPS when I have no one to heal or when I feel I am able to do so without the tank taking massive damage while I cast that can't be made up for on the next cast. But honestly I don't expect a whole lot out of Duty Finder groups. If we get through the content with no wipes awesome.

I firmly believe that a tank should only pull as much as THEY feel they can handle. Don't pull wall to wall just because everything thinks you should be able to handle it. I've had groups doing only single pulls that barely required healing. I've had overconfident tanks pull wall to wall and had to spam Cure II and use every CD I have just to keep them alive. (Because healing should be stressful and trash harder than bosses apparently?) Bottom line if you can't adjust your own expectations and figure out a way to get through the content with the party you have, stick to pre-made. Some people aren't good at games. Some people aren't good with the job they're on. Some people have real life distractions. Don't expect ever person playing this game to have the same skill, attention, or dedication to the game as you.

You have control of what you're bothered by.

[Urthdigger]

So I am a "idling healer" because I am mostly undergeared when I do dungeon and I am still struggling with my mp pool at times. So I might throw some BIO from time to time but i mostly focus on healing throughout the dungeon. I've been successful in all the dungeon with did using that method. I apologize if it's not fast enough for you. This is how I roll. I care about making it till the end.

btw, last night only me (SCH) and the 2 tank were left in the battle and I ran out of MP while lucid dream was a on CD. Dungeon boss has 15% HP left. It was amazing that we managed to pull this off. My Lucid Dream kicked in at the right moment and we pulled through.

Nobody minds if a healer is barely DPSing because they have to spend all their resources healing just to get by, BUT I think we can all agree that if you were to look at that and say "Well, folks survived so there's no reason to upgrade my gear lol" people would be justified in saying you're bad.

Putting out a lot of DPS while keeping folks alive is the end goal. It's what you should strive to do. It's ok if you go "Well, I'm still practicing/gearing, I'll get there eventually." My beef is with the people who say "Well, nobody died, so I'm at the peak of my ability and see no reason to improve."