If you thought the healer DPS debate would change with the change...

[nsane]

Healer main here, if I'm not healing, I DPS. Why? Standing there doing nothing feels horrible.

[Eli85]

It's 2019, and there are healers who think doing 0 DPS is acceptable? Really? So ridiculous. If, during a given GCD, no one needs healing (or healing would result in over healing) and you do not need to move, your spell selection should always be a DPS spell. If you disagree with this, you're trolling.

[ScarboroughFairy]

And yet, she's right. IF, and that a big if, we know it won't happen, but if it did, we'd see probably an increase of healers in DF because we wouldn't have to put up with the toxic behavior of other players throwing their "ideal" on to a healer.

I wouldn't go that far. There was an incident recently where a twitch streamer votekicked a WHM for spamcasting Holy on large pull in a dungeon with little to no damage being done to the tank. This pissed off a lot of Healers that tuned in because that Healer did nothing wrong. I would say that there's more people that share the sentiment that they should do more than just the bare minimum, but I have no objective way to back up this claim aside from that minor anecdote.

We get it already. Some healers love to dps (to the point they tunnel vision the tank health... wipe incoming!), some focus on healing before dps, while some don't do any dps at all.
And I'm not saying that I support those who do stand around doing nothing, but I don't support this utter bs of bulling in DF dungeons.

Neither do I support bullying, especially if the party is getting raked in a dungeon and the Healer doesn't have time to DPS because people can't stop standing in bad. You can't heal stupid after all.

And let be honest, it dungeons. If DPS themselves can't pull their weight in a dungeon and NEED the healer to dps, I hope they aren't going to be applying for a raid group anytime soon.

Gonna stop you here because it isn't about DPS not pulling their weight when it comes to DPSing. It's about being proactive and executing the Job to the best of your ability. The faster mobs die, the less time you have to focus on Healing in the first place. It's why we have, as Healers, DPS buttons as a part of our kit as damage dealing is, in itself, a form of healing.

[Halivel]

Reporting from Aether — I haven’t seen any instances of griefing over this. Most people say “hello” at the start, and “thank you” at the end, and that’s about it.

Good to hear this. When I played on Sargatanas few years ago my experience was... not the best, to say the least.

[ForteNightshade]

And yet, she's right. IF, and that a big if, we know it won't happen, but if it did, we'd see probably an increase of healers in DF because we wouldn't have to put up with the toxic behavior of other players throwing their "ideal" on to a healer.

Every Roulette asking for Healer in Need would like a word with you about that. By just reducing healer DPS to three buttons, healers have become less popular than tanks. Should this linger beyond the initial hype, this will be the first time in over half a decade tanks are no longer the role in constant demand. And you somehow surmise locking out DPS completely in Duty content would bring in more healers? No. It would all but guarantee a mass exodus, and the new meta for Savage content to include five DPS and only one healer.

Raw intuition is worse than before and if you decide to cast it you will be unable to heal yourself with nascent flash, TBN got only 5% buff and you will use that one time or two it doesnt make any difference.

... Raw went from a Parry bonus to a flat 25% defensive ability on a 25 second cooldown. That is leaps and bounds superior in every facet. It sharing a CD with Nascent Flash matters little because they have different uses. The latter is intended for use while OTing—essentially providing Warrior with a TBN/Intervention equivalent. Raw is for when you're MTing. Speaking of TBN, an additional 5% of a tank's HP is much more potent. We're boasting six digits now. That is no small amount.

Old version of Raw intuition gave you 100% parry chance and if you mixed it with awaeness it was 20 second 18% damage decrease, now its 20% for 5 seconds. Also if things were bad enough, inner beast had another 20%. Warrior was way more tanky in tank stance before 5.0 hit than he is now, same with DRK.
DRK lost his giant sustain and did not get any low cooldown deffense ability at all.

Old Raw was on a 90s CD compared to 25s now. That is almost four times the usage for a CD you acknowledges is stronger. Seriously. And what? Warrior was more tanky before? They didn't even have a tank stance. Defiance only boosted their HP. Warrior literally got a 20% free defensive buff. While DRK did lose some of its HP sustain, you typically wanted to avoid Dark Arts Abyssal Drain because it was technically a DPS loss unless you were overcapping on MP.

As for Protect. The mitigation of it was so low, you often wouldn't even save a healing cast if memory serves. It had a purpose much in the same way food or materia does but it wasn't anything significant. Furthermore, tank stats as a whole accommodate some losses. Hence why tanks are often taking less damage now than during Stormblood's release. You have to consider prior to 5.0 tanks did not have a 25s 20% CD they essentially spam. That contributes significantly more than Protect ever did.

[ElazulHP]

[Cylla]

Gonna stop you here because it isn't about DPS not pulling their weight when it comes to DPSing. It's about being proactive and executing the Job to the best of your ability. The faster mobs die, the less time you have to focus on Healing in the first place. It's why we have, as Healers, DPS buttons as a part of our kit as damage dealing is, in itself, a form of healing.

Again, we don't know the whole story beyond what the OP posted here.
If she was focused on keeping up the group but yelled/told to dps when she didn't have the freedom to do so, there a problem and not with the healer. I'm not going to disagree and say that mobs won't die faster if the healer add in their own dps, but it should only be when they have the ability to do so. I've had times already where I "thought" I could dps only to find the tank eating dirt a few seconds later.

I don't know. I've gotten into pug runs where tanks seem to not know how to use their abilities right or dps standing in bad and making no effect to move. No joke, I had a DNC last night who was doing this. Things like this at the moment, keep me from doing dps as i'm having to spend mana in raising and keeping the tank up.

[ScarboroughFairy]

Again, we don't know the whole story beyond what the OP posted here.
If she was focused on keeping up the group but yelled/told to dps when she didn't have the freedom to do so, there a problem and not with the healer. I'm not going to disagree and say that mobs won't die faster if the healer add in their own dps, but it should only be when they have the ability to do so. I've had times already where I "thought" I could dps only to find the tank eating dirt a few seconds later.

I'm going to concede to your earlier point in a previous comment about people talking past each other to attack the extremes because I find there is very little we actually disagree on. To this end and in regards to the very comment I'm quoting, I agree. This is exactly why all of my previous comments aren't admonishing the OP because I don't have the full story. My contention is with those who insist idling is acceptable when they aren't healing.

[Joven]

I'm just going to offer a little bit of advice to any new healers that may be reading this thread:

Do what you think is right in the moment. Even if that means you don't feel comfortable dealing damage while not healing which causes you to stand there. Every run is going to be different unless you run with a static. And for the love of Hydaelyn communicate with your bloody party. This applies to everyone. If you think the healer can spend more time dealing damage let them know in a constructive manner and if you're the healer communicate that you're not comfortable for whatever your reason.

If all else fails and you end up getting kicked for 'not contributing enough' and you've already communicated your situation then just use your insta-queues to get a party that appreciates your efforts.

[CorbinDallas]

What's even funnier is that the vast majority of zero DPS healers can't even heal properly/efficiently. They prepull Medica 2, they Medica 2 after already topping off the party with whatever other heal. Cure 2 at 95% HP. Sit on off globals for hypothetical emergencies that 9 times out of 10 don't happen. I could go on, but the point I'm trying to make is that they don't have a leg to stand on either way.