The DPS is not the Healer

[Aver]

Let's break this down simply. The tank and healer are half the group. The DPS are the other half. Two individuals do not have the privilege to tell two other players how the group is going to go. Sorry, not how it works. 3/4 can tell the group how it's going to go, and if you're 1/4, and that's not palatable, then you leave.

But you as a healer or tank, thinking you're some special snowflake who can dictate how the dungeon is paced, regardless of what the rest of the group thinks? That's the literal definition of entitled.

I just... what? The tank's job is to set the pace of the dungeon. It's not entitlement, it's the role's job.

[Eli85]

I mean that is, quite literally, how it works. The dungeon would be going nowhere if I didn't set the pace. That's a part of the role, not some form of 'entitlement' you absolute goon. If you as a DPS take issue with me doing big pulls, deal with it. I'm going to mention here that I regularly play all three roles, and I see no reason a DPS would ask someone -not- to do large pulls. That mindset simply does not exist.

Ah, the staple of a great argument: when you resort to name calling.

Even better when you're dead wrong.

The idea that tanks set the pace is a big myth in MMORPGs. Pacing is a group decision, full stop. Why? It affects the entire group; not just the tank or healers. You, whether as a tank or the healer, do not get to make a group-wide decision.

I just... what? The tank's job is to set the pace of the dungeon. It's not entitlement, it's the role's job.

Just like with the other poster, you're dead wrong. The tank's job is to tank the mobs. Pacing is a group decision.

[Videra]

Ah, the staple of a great argument: when you resort to name calling.

Even better when you're dead wrong.

The idea that tanks set the pace is a big myth in MMORPGs. Pacing is a group decision, full stop. Why? It affects the entire group; not just the tank or healers. You, whether as a tank or the healer, do not get to make a group-wide decision.



Just like with the other poster, you're dead wrong. The tank's job is to tank the mobs. Pacing is a group decision.

I mean, if you're going to tell me that I'm wrong? I can do very much the same. Tanks and healers have always set the pace, while DPS followed. I don't know where you got this entitled opinion that you think what DPS want outside of doing their job matters, but it's hilarious. You are -actively- denying the reality before your very eyes.

Please, try again.

[Skogli]

While leveling tank Jobs I often see DPS running up behind me and start jumping to get me to keep going.

That makes me pull slower. Speak up please.

[Eli85]

I mean, if you're going to tell me that I'm wrong? I can do very much the same. Tanks and healers have always set the pace, while DPS followed. I don't know where you got this entitled opinion that you think what DPS want outside of doing their job matters, but it's hilarious. You are -actively- denying the reality before your very eyes.

Please, try again.

Telling you that you're wrong is not an insult. Calling me a goon is. I don't know why this is so hard to understand.

You have a very warped view of reality if you truly believe that every single DPS just follows. And that the tank and healer alone set the pace. It's honestly quite narcissistic to think that. If the group wants to go at a faster pace, tanks, in the large majority of situations, go at that faster pace. I have also seen DPS pull extra sets of mobs, once, then the tank reacts and does larger pull thereafter. Hmm, that's a DPS setting the pace.

So, no, you don't get the unquestioned power about pace. The group does. Not you.

[Videra]

Telling you that you're wrong is not an insult. Calling me a goon is. I don't know why this is so hard to understand.

You have a very warped view of reality if you truly believe that every single DPS just follows. And that the tank and healer alone set the pace. It's honestly quite narcissistic to think that. If the group wants to go at a faster pace, tanks, in the large majority of situations, go at that faster pace. I have also seen DPS pull extra sets of mobs, once, then the tank reacts and does larger pull thereafter. Hmm, that's a DPS setting the pace.

So, no, you don't get the unquestioned power about pace. The group does. Not you.

If you pull it, you tank it. This has been a reality for many, many years. DPS does not have the right to pull. Now, the healer? Yes. If the healer demands a higher pace, then forward march. (Not that this is an issue for me, as I've already addressed this.) Again, you are simply denying reality about how the roles work. DPS who pull get to tank what they spank, and you rarely find a tank or healer that doesn't agree with this same sentiment.

[Nedkel]

Ah, the staple of a great argument: when you resort to name calling.

Even better when you're dead wrong.

The idea that tanks set the pace is a big myth in MMORPGs. Pacing is a group decision, full stop. Why? It affects the entire group; not just the tank or healers. You, whether as a tank or the healer, do not get to make a group-wide decision.

Thats why it is so responsible role, because as a tank you have to do and know everything.
Thats why there are not too many players playing tanks in mmorpg even in games like WoW where it is easy to play even easier than here.

[CazzT]

If you were on my dataserver I'd show you. But currently due to forum TOS I cannot post names. We'll just say I know a few. As others said, it only takes 2 to kick. So the DPS are very much relevant to the discussion as they comprise of at least two people. You say you can do a dungeon without them, but I doubt that is true if you're not in the dungeon anymore to begin with.

As I said, there's no reason to even push it that far.

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. I do live by the motto that "if you think you've seen the dumbest thing ever, someone will scream 'challenge accepted!'"... And yet I'm still surprised that a DPS would be mad when a Tank does big pulls. /facepalm

I fully agree there's no reason to push it that far. And, in the interest of fairness, I feel I should point out that I do listen to the input of DPS on matters like this. It's just that DPS input on pull size really isn't important since their contribution to the success of the pull is, by comparison, trivial to the Tank and Healer. I usually argue/debate from the position of "here's the reality of it". I rarely walk that line myself.

[Fynlar]

While leveling tank Jobs I often see DPS running up behind me and start jumping to get me to keep going.

That makes me pull slower. Speak up please.

That IS their way of speaking up. And frankly, it's a nice way of doing it too.

If they were trying to be Richards about it, they would be running ahead and pulling for you.

[RionRequiel]

By default as a Tank I tend to do small to medium pulls (One or two groups of Mobs) rather than Wall to Wall/Large Pulls. This is because of a few reasons.

1: I go at my own pace when I want and how I want to. If you want me to "Pull Big" then ask, politely mind you. If you type something rude expect a snarky comeback because I don't play that way. You can ask nicely or not at all.

2: I have had plenty of times where pulling big results in a wipe and forces us all to have to go back to the start then walk back even with Shortcuts. If we had pulled small we would have wasted far less time.

3: Some people play the game to enjoy the designs in the dungeons and the like. There are also First Time Players who either are just starting or wish to take it slow rather than bum-rush through Content.