Giving back scholar dps skills?

[TonberiScholar]

Miasma II vs AoW
I find the complaints about AoW funny, considering it costs you 8% of your MP pool and Miasma II used to cost ~9.3%. Running out of MP due to AoW spam is a problem, but the same thing wasn't a problem with Miasma II? I can only assume most complains about this stem from the fact that WHM/AST have low costs on their AoE. Jealousy, basically.



At 1100 Piety you regen an extra 50 MP per tick. This is easily reachable and practically unavoidable at level 80. This is what you get per minute:
- 10% from Aetherflow
- 35% from Lucid Dreaming
- 50% from passive regen
You are restoring 95% of your MP pool per minute.

In Stormblood:
- 12.5% from Aetherflow
- ~19% from Lucid Dreaming
- 40% from passive regen
- up to 26% from ED (up to 4 per minute)
You were restoring ~98% of your MP pool per minute (if using only ED).

So what did you have extra in Stormblood?
- ~11% from Refresh
- ~8% from Mana Shift

What do you have extra in Shadowbringers?
- Significantly more OGCD options that have zero MP cost


So what is the issue? People are not mashing their Lucid Dreaming button on cooldown.

You're, as far as I can tell, comparing Art of War spam to Miasma II spam.

Forgetting that, in addition to the higher regen (only 3%, but you mathed it out so I'd feel remiss in not mentioning it) PLUS the up to 19% from outside sources, PLUS the additional mana from Energy Drain, we had two additional forms of AoE in Stormblood that cost either very little (DoTs to use with Bane and the opportunity cost of no ED) or nothing (Shadow Flare).

So not only is AoW more expensive, but we regain less MP in general, we don't have Energy Drain, we don't have any other AoE tools, and we don't have the potential for two outside sources.

Meanwhile WHM kept Thin Air and even though Assize's MP regen was reduced, Holy also got reduced in cost. And WHM gained Misery.

I'd much rather trade AoW for Bane/Shadowflare back, to be honest. Holy's basically free on WHM right now even before Thin Air, and I don't have a problem with that so much as I do SCH's AoE option being both bad from a cost perspective and completely counter to the flavor we've had the past six years.

AST...well, Lightspeed Gravity's nice, but they could probably use a secondary MP mechanic too (roughly akin to Assize/Aetherflow).

[LariaKirin]

You're, as far as I can tell, comparing Art of War spam to Miasma II spam.

Forgetting that, in addition to the higher regen (only 3%, but you mathed it out so I'd feel remiss in not mentioning it) PLUS the up to 19% from outside sources, PLUS the additional mana from Energy Drain, we had two additional forms of AoE in Stormblood that cost either very little (DoTs to use with Bane and the opportunity cost of no ED) or nothing (Shadow Flare).

So not only is AoW more expensive, but we regain less MP in general, we don't have Energy Drain, we don't have any other AoE tools, and we don't have the potential for two outside sources.

Meanwhile WHM kept Thin Air and even though Assize's MP regen was reduced, Holy also got reduced in cost. And WHM gained Misery.

I'd much rather trade AoW for Bane/Shadowflare back, to be honest. Holy's basically free on WHM right now even before Thin Air, and I don't have a problem with that so much as I do SCH's AoE option being both bad from a cost perspective and completely counter to the flavor we've had the past six years.

AST...well, Lightspeed Gravity's nice, but they could probably use a secondary MP mechanic too (roughly akin to Assize/Aetherflow).

Only the first paragraph is comparing AoW against Miasma II. The rest of the post is comparing MP regen. It is not "PLUS" the MP from energy drain. The 98% comes from using every single stack of Aetherflow on Energy Drain.

The only thing we are missing now is ~20% MP regen from Refresh and Mana Shift.

To put it another way. Suppose you saved three stacks of Aetherflow per minute for healing abilities (like we have now). This would cost you ~20% MP regen - which in Stormblood you could cover with Refresh and Manashift.

So from this perspective: If you saved 3 stacks of aetherflow every minute for healing (and only used the extra ones you would get from the Aetherflow trait on ED) AND you had your dedicated Refresh/Mana Shift slaves, then your MP Regen would have been essentially equivalent to what we have now. It's almost as if the developers didn't assign random numbers and cooldowns to the skills...

So, the problem is: People are not using Lucid Dreaming on cooldown.

[TonberiScholar]

The only thing we are missing now is ~20% MP regen from Refresh and Mana Shift.

This is the incorrect bit though.

We're also missing Bane and Shadowflare, and that's why Miasma II wasn't as much of an issue in Stormblood as Art of War is now.

Which, given SCH also doesn't have Thin Air or Lightspeed, is kind of a problem.

White Mage and Astrologian are, funny enough, in the position now (slightly lower burst AoE damage for better MP efficiency) that Scholar was from ARR to the end of Stormblood.

Having an AoE that's considerably more expensive for slightly more potency is a terrible tradeoff, which is (presumably) why Gravity and Holy had their MP costs lowered.

Also (at least from what they've said), one of the root causes behind removing TP.

So it's not so much "SCH jealousy" as it is "one set of design decisions is completely at odds with the rest of the ones they made and the reasons they stated".

[Lagomorph]

Miasma II vs AoW
I find the complaints about AoW funny, considering it costs you 8% of your MP pool and Miasma II used to cost ~9.3%. Running out of MP due to AoW spam is a problem, but the same thing wasn't a problem with Miasma II? I can only assume most complains about this stem from the fact that WHM/AST have low costs on their AoE. Jealousy, basically.



At 1100 Piety you regen an extra 50 MP per tick. This is easily reachable and practically unavoidable at level 80. This is what you get per minute:
- 10% from Aetherflow
- 35% from Lucid Dreaming
- 50% from passive regen
You are restoring 95% of your MP pool per minute.

In Stormblood:
- 12.5% from Aetherflow
- ~19% from Lucid Dreaming
- 40% from passive regen
- up to 26% from ED (up to 4 per minute)
You were restoring ~98% of your MP pool per minute (if using only ED).

So what did you have extra in Stormblood?
- ~11% from Refresh
- ~8% from Mana Shift

What do you have extra in Shadowbringers?
- Significantly more OGCD options that have zero MP cost


So what is the issue? People are not mashing their Lucid Dreaming button on cooldown.

Your post is pretty misguided, you can't compare mp costs the way that you do. Listing lucid dreaming as only 19% mp per minute is pretty misleading. I know what you did. You took the total regen of lucid dreaming and divided it by two to get a per minute regen, right? It doesn't work like that. What if I only get to use lucid dreaming before we reach the boss? Then the old lucid dreaming is vastly superior. Under the new aetherflow system you're forced to basically wast 1000 mp straight away as the tank is pulling. I guess you could hold it, but then you're wasting the cooldown on aetherflow. We also get less out of combat mp ticks, because we need to hit something asap due to the new aetherflow mechanics as well as eos being trigger happy with the new instant cast embrace. Lastly I could safely spam miasma 2 down to 0 mp in stormblood, because I knew I had energy drain to fall back on. Right now I'll stop using art of war at around 1.5k mp, because if if you run out of mp without lucid there are no other options. All of this leads up to one point though: in stormblood I could spam miasma 2 until stuff was dead. Right now, I cannot spam art of war until stuff is dead. I can assure you that I am using lucid dreaming properly. Either you are consistently getting matched with people who do signifincaly more dps than the people I get matched with, or you are grossly exaggerating (be it intentional or not) some of the points that you made. I'm much more inclined to believe that it is the latter.

[FoxyAreku]

Bane doesn't really feel necessary anymore now that we have just one super dot to me.
Art of War is better than Miasma 2 in a filler AoE situation, it was always awkward that you wanted to spam Miasma 2 for the initial damage instead of actually using the dot, so I like that we have a new skill that just frontloads the damage now.
Biolysis is so strong it's like two dots in one so I don't mind not having miasma

I just want Energy Drain back. Or if I can't have it back, then something to spend excess aetherflows on. It's so weird having to waste lustrates just to expend the resource now.

[Anselmet]

Miasma II vs AoW
I find the complaints about AoW funny, considering it costs you 8% of your MP pool and Miasma II used to cost ~9.3%. Running out of MP due to AoW spam is a problem, but the same thing wasn't a problem with Miasma II? I can only assume most complains about this stem from the fact that WHM/AST have low costs on their AoE. Jealousy, basically.



At 1100 Piety you regen an extra 50 MP per tick. This is easily reachable and practically unavoidable at level 80. This is what you get per minute:
- 10% from Aetherflow
- 35% from Lucid Dreaming
- 50% from passive regen
You are restoring 95% of your MP pool per minute.

In Stormblood:
- 12.5% from Aetherflow
- ~19% from Lucid Dreaming
- 40% from passive regen
- up to 26% from ED (up to 4 per minute)
You were restoring ~98% of your MP pool per minute (if using only ED).

So what did you have extra in Stormblood?
- ~11% from Refresh
- ~8% from Mana Shift

What do you have extra in Shadowbringers?
- Significantly more OGCD options that have zero MP cost


So what is the issue? People are not mashing their Lucid Dreaming button on cooldown.

Okay, so you're comparing Miasma II vs Art of War spam and then claiming that our mp is the same. That is so misguided. You cannot talk about sb SCH aoe damage without adding how Shadowflare (low mp cost) and bane (aether stack) did damage if we did not have the mp to aoe or if we had to heal. I also don't see you mentioning quickened aether flow either. Like you want to say that we have better mp management to aoe now, but then in the same breath don't mention half of stormbloods kit. That's really disingenuous at best. Not to mention if I needed mp energy drain was there. You know, that skill half the people are mourning the loss of in this thread.

[EaMett]

Your post is pretty misguided, you can't compare mp costs the way that you do. Listing lucid dreaming as only 19% mp per minute is pretty misleading. I know what you did. You took the total regen of lucid dreaming and divided it by two to get a per minute regen, right? It doesn't work like that. What if I only get to use lucid dreaming before we reach the boss? Then the old lucid dreaming is vastly superior. Under the new aetherflow system you're forced to basically wast 1000 mp straight away as the tank is pulling. I guess you could hold it, but then you're wasting the cooldown on aetherflow. We also get less out of combat mp ticks, because we need to hit something asap due to the new aetherflow mechanics as well as eos being trigger happy with the new instant cast embrace. Lastly I could safely spam miasma 2 down to 0 mp in stormblood, because I knew I had energy drain to fall back on. Right now I'll stop using art of war at around 1.5k mp, because if if you run out of mp without lucid there are no other options. All of this leads up to one point though: in stormblood I could spam miasma 2 until stuff was dead. Right now, I cannot spam art of war until stuff is dead. I can assure you that I am using lucid dreaming properly. Either you are consistently getting matched with people who do signifincaly more dps than the people I get matched with, or you are grossly exaggerating (be it intentional or not) some of the points that you made. I'm much more inclined to believe that it is the latter.

This is part of it. The way AF spreads across dungeons means we don’t benefit from it as much as we did in sb (where the timer aligned almost perfectly with trash pulls). Same goes with the regen we got from Ed which we could time ourselves. It also doesn’t take into account the fact we had AF out of combat and bane which meant that we could spend a lot of the pull time in natural regen instead of in combat (casting dots on mobs as we run). I’ve said this before and will say it again. I have 2.2k piety today and can’t spam AoW as much as I did miasma II when I had 300 piety.

Next to that mana in raid context seems pretty endless where I used to struggle as soon as I moved away from my planned rotation. The way we regen mana is just no longer spreading well for dungeon content and AoW usage. It only works out if you have decent party dps.
We can hope that the gearing race will tend towards this but I wouldn’t bet my money on it given how lackluster DF party was in sb.

[TheBlackMind]

Scholar needed to be nerfed. Down vote all you want, but the truth is they had too much going. Simply put they were more than overpowered regardless of what the people who are yelling the hardest will have you believe. I have yet to really play with Sch changes since my main is 80 Whm and I am now leveling up Astro, but I will be seeing how Sch goes soon after Astro is 80. I don't understand why you call Sch boring. Healing is boring to a lot of people, but to me it's fun. Either you are a healer or you are not. I think to many people jumped on the Sch bandwagon because they felt like DPS casters with strong healing options. Now they feel like healers and you are expected to heal. Imagine that. Sch will be in a good place this xpac. And people who enjoying healing will heal, and those DPS wannabes will find something else.

[Tharnor]

Not sure why all the whining, we still have weaving to keep healing and dps as efficient as possible. We lost three dps skills when were not dps. Are we boring to solo with now? I don't know what game you were playing but we were boring before that. In 8mans it was irrelevant outside of dps racing. If any of you think se cares about your epeens on fflogs your wrong. I am not even going to need to compare numbers here. Dps till half mana pop lucid, this is not rocket science. Most pulls die by that point in my experience and I have never run out of mana doing any of the new content. The only real complaint I have is aetherflow being locked to combat and something other then heals to blow aetherflow on to build the fairy gauge.

[Semirhage]

I don't know what game you were playing but we were boring before that.

Yeah see this is one of the arguments I've seen the last several expansions that just blows my mind. "Your favorite job was boring before, so what are you complaining about?" God forbid people want their favorite job aesthetic to be fun, and maybe they didn't like being unfun before either? Is this really rocket science?