Giving back scholar dps skills?

[LariaKirin]

Just maintaining Bio drains almost more MP than Aetherflow can restore, which mind you is already just a pitiful 1k MP every 60 seconds. If you add Ruin and Adloquium to that you're well in a range where you'd need at least double that MP regeneration just to break even. By giving us back an Energy Drain equivalent, let's call it 'Manafocus' that grants us an additional 10% MP at the cost of one Aetherflow stack, we could trade in healing potency to sustain our MP better, which in turn gives us more usage of Adloquium and we can assist as a tertiary DPS even if it's as simple as using Bio and Ruin between healing.

Miasma II vs AoW
I find the complaints about AoW funny, considering it costs you 8% of your MP pool and Miasma II used to cost ~9.3%. Running out of MP due to AoW spam is a problem, but the same thing wasn't a problem with Miasma II? I can only assume most complains about this stem from the fact that WHM/AST have low costs on their AoE. Jealousy, basically.



At 1100 Piety you regen an extra 50 MP per tick. This is easily reachable and practically unavoidable at level 80. This is what you get per minute:
- 10% from Aetherflow
- 35% from Lucid Dreaming
- 50% from passive regen
You are restoring 95% of your MP pool per minute.

In Stormblood:
- 12.5% from Aetherflow
- ~19% from Lucid Dreaming
- 40% from passive regen
- up to 26% from ED (up to 4 per minute)
You were restoring ~98% of your MP pool per minute (if using only ED).

So what did you have extra in Stormblood?
- ~11% from Refresh
- ~8% from Mana Shift

What do you have extra in Shadowbringers?
- Significantly more OGCD options that have zero MP cost


So what is the issue? People are not mashing their Lucid Dreaming button on cooldown.

[KDSilver]

Miasma II vs AoW
I find the complaints about AoW funny, considering it costs you 8% of your MP pool and Miasma II used to cost ~9.3%. Running out of MP due to AoW spam is a problem, but the same thing wasn't a problem with Miasma II? I can only assume most complains about this stem from the fact that WHM/AST have low costs on their AoE. Jealousy, basically.

I won't be arguing about the real topic here, which is miasma II vs AoW, but things have to be put back into their real context.
When we had Miasma II, we also had aetheflow traits and energy drain, which allowed us more flexibility with our mp managment, which is not the case right now. (+ the fact that the fairy were a bit more stronger)

Also, loosing that flexibility is something that hurt the entire design of scholar with its mp capacity. We never play with the same group, and sadly, precisely on an expansion launch, you'll have to heal with a lot of dps who barely do damage even on aoe situation. pug is pug. If a pull take too much time, rip your mana. It happened before, but your AF was every 45s with some energy drain at our disposal if needeed, and dissipation as well to gain another 3 AF stacks and AF at 30s.

+ like what you say, refresh and mana shift.

+ tanks loose some defensive CD as well, like convalescence for example and such. Which might require sometimes more healing outside of our oGCD, even if we are plenty effective with those right now.

A lot of things have to be considered and i even think I forget some.

[LariaKirin]

I won't be arguing about the real topic here, which is miasma II vs AoW, but things have to be put back into their real context.
When we had Miasma II, we also had aetheflow traits and energy drain, which allowed us more flexibility with our mp managment, which is not the case right now. (+ the fact that the fairy were a bit more stronger)

Also, loosing that flexibility is something that hurt the entire design of scholar with its mp capacity. We never play with the same group, and sadly, precisely on an expansion launch, you'll have to heal with a lot of dps who barely do damage even on aoe situation. pug is pug. If a pull take too much time, rip your mana. It happened before, but your AF was every 45s with some energy drain at our disposal if needeed, and dissipation as well to gain another 3 AF stacks and AF at 30s.

+ like what you say, refresh and mana shift.

+ tanks loose some defensive CD as well, like convalescence for example and such. Which might require sometimes more healing outside of our oGCD, even if we are plenty effective with those right now.

A lot of things have to be considered and i even think I forget some.

Did I not specifically mention the context right below that? Do you not understand that your MP Regen now is pretty much the same as it was in Stormblood?

Let me put it in another perspective... Say that, in Stormblood, you had your own personal Manashift and Refresh beach. You spent 1 aetherflow stack on ED per minute. You kept the other 3 aetherflow stacks for healing. The MP regen you had in that situation is essentially identical to the MP regen you have now.

Scale an ability bar to 200%, put Lucid Dreaming on it and slap it in the middle of your screen. Every time you see it off cooldown, click it. I guarantee you that you will feel just as comfortable as you did in Stormblood, MP-wise.

[TonberiScholar]

Miasma II vs AoW
I find the complaints about AoW funny, considering it costs you 8% of your MP pool and Miasma II used to cost ~9.3%. Running out of MP due to AoW spam is a problem, but the same thing wasn't a problem with Miasma II? I can only assume most complains about this stem from the fact that WHM/AST have low costs on their AoE. Jealousy, basically.



At 1100 Piety you regen an extra 50 MP per tick. This is easily reachable and practically unavoidable at level 80. This is what you get per minute:
- 10% from Aetherflow
- 35% from Lucid Dreaming
- 50% from passive regen
You are restoring 95% of your MP pool per minute.

In Stormblood:
- 12.5% from Aetherflow
- ~19% from Lucid Dreaming
- 40% from passive regen
- up to 26% from ED (up to 4 per minute)
You were restoring ~98% of your MP pool per minute (if using only ED).

So what did you have extra in Stormblood?
- ~11% from Refresh
- ~8% from Mana Shift

What do you have extra in Shadowbringers?
- Significantly more OGCD options that have zero MP cost


So what is the issue? People are not mashing their Lucid Dreaming button on cooldown.

You're, as far as I can tell, comparing Art of War spam to Miasma II spam.

Forgetting that, in addition to the higher regen (only 3%, but you mathed it out so I'd feel remiss in not mentioning it) PLUS the up to 19% from outside sources, PLUS the additional mana from Energy Drain, we had two additional forms of AoE in Stormblood that cost either very little (DoTs to use with Bane and the opportunity cost of no ED) or nothing (Shadow Flare).

So not only is AoW more expensive, but we regain less MP in general, we don't have Energy Drain, we don't have any other AoE tools, and we don't have the potential for two outside sources.

Meanwhile WHM kept Thin Air and even though Assize's MP regen was reduced, Holy also got reduced in cost. And WHM gained Misery.

I'd much rather trade AoW for Bane/Shadowflare back, to be honest. Holy's basically free on WHM right now even before Thin Air, and I don't have a problem with that so much as I do SCH's AoE option being both bad from a cost perspective and completely counter to the flavor we've had the past six years.

AST...well, Lightspeed Gravity's nice, but they could probably use a secondary MP mechanic too (roughly akin to Assize/Aetherflow).

[LariaKirin]

You're, as far as I can tell, comparing Art of War spam to Miasma II spam.

Forgetting that, in addition to the higher regen (only 3%, but you mathed it out so I'd feel remiss in not mentioning it) PLUS the up to 19% from outside sources, PLUS the additional mana from Energy Drain, we had two additional forms of AoE in Stormblood that cost either very little (DoTs to use with Bane and the opportunity cost of no ED) or nothing (Shadow Flare).

So not only is AoW more expensive, but we regain less MP in general, we don't have Energy Drain, we don't have any other AoE tools, and we don't have the potential for two outside sources.

Meanwhile WHM kept Thin Air and even though Assize's MP regen was reduced, Holy also got reduced in cost. And WHM gained Misery.

I'd much rather trade AoW for Bane/Shadowflare back, to be honest. Holy's basically free on WHM right now even before Thin Air, and I don't have a problem with that so much as I do SCH's AoE option being both bad from a cost perspective and completely counter to the flavor we've had the past six years.

AST...well, Lightspeed Gravity's nice, but they could probably use a secondary MP mechanic too (roughly akin to Assize/Aetherflow).

Only the first paragraph is comparing AoW against Miasma II. The rest of the post is comparing MP regen. It is not "PLUS" the MP from energy drain. The 98% comes from using every single stack of Aetherflow on Energy Drain.

The only thing we are missing now is ~20% MP regen from Refresh and Mana Shift.

To put it another way. Suppose you saved three stacks of Aetherflow per minute for healing abilities (like we have now). This would cost you ~20% MP regen - which in Stormblood you could cover with Refresh and Manashift.

So from this perspective: If you saved 3 stacks of aetherflow every minute for healing (and only used the extra ones you would get from the Aetherflow trait on ED) AND you had your dedicated Refresh/Mana Shift slaves, then your MP Regen would have been essentially equivalent to what we have now. It's almost as if the developers didn't assign random numbers and cooldowns to the skills...

So, the problem is: People are not using Lucid Dreaming on cooldown.

[TonberiScholar]

The only thing we are missing now is ~20% MP regen from Refresh and Mana Shift.

This is the incorrect bit though.

We're also missing Bane and Shadowflare, and that's why Miasma II wasn't as much of an issue in Stormblood as Art of War is now.

Which, given SCH also doesn't have Thin Air or Lightspeed, is kind of a problem.

White Mage and Astrologian are, funny enough, in the position now (slightly lower burst AoE damage for better MP efficiency) that Scholar was from ARR to the end of Stormblood.

Having an AoE that's considerably more expensive for slightly more potency is a terrible tradeoff, which is (presumably) why Gravity and Holy had their MP costs lowered.

Also (at least from what they've said), one of the root causes behind removing TP.

So it's not so much "SCH jealousy" as it is "one set of design decisions is completely at odds with the rest of the ones they made and the reasons they stated".

[Lagomorph]

Miasma II vs AoW
I find the complaints about AoW funny, considering it costs you 8% of your MP pool and Miasma II used to cost ~9.3%. Running out of MP due to AoW spam is a problem, but the same thing wasn't a problem with Miasma II? I can only assume most complains about this stem from the fact that WHM/AST have low costs on their AoE. Jealousy, basically.



At 1100 Piety you regen an extra 50 MP per tick. This is easily reachable and practically unavoidable at level 80. This is what you get per minute:
- 10% from Aetherflow
- 35% from Lucid Dreaming
- 50% from passive regen
You are restoring 95% of your MP pool per minute.

In Stormblood:
- 12.5% from Aetherflow
- ~19% from Lucid Dreaming
- 40% from passive regen
- up to 26% from ED (up to 4 per minute)
You were restoring ~98% of your MP pool per minute (if using only ED).

So what did you have extra in Stormblood?
- ~11% from Refresh
- ~8% from Mana Shift

What do you have extra in Shadowbringers?
- Significantly more OGCD options that have zero MP cost


So what is the issue? People are not mashing their Lucid Dreaming button on cooldown.

Your post is pretty misguided, you can't compare mp costs the way that you do. Listing lucid dreaming as only 19% mp per minute is pretty misleading. I know what you did. You took the total regen of lucid dreaming and divided it by two to get a per minute regen, right? It doesn't work like that. What if I only get to use lucid dreaming before we reach the boss? Then the old lucid dreaming is vastly superior. Under the new aetherflow system you're forced to basically wast 1000 mp straight away as the tank is pulling. I guess you could hold it, but then you're wasting the cooldown on aetherflow. We also get less out of combat mp ticks, because we need to hit something asap due to the new aetherflow mechanics as well as eos being trigger happy with the new instant cast embrace. Lastly I could safely spam miasma 2 down to 0 mp in stormblood, because I knew I had energy drain to fall back on. Right now I'll stop using art of war at around 1.5k mp, because if if you run out of mp without lucid there are no other options. All of this leads up to one point though: in stormblood I could spam miasma 2 until stuff was dead. Right now, I cannot spam art of war until stuff is dead. I can assure you that I am using lucid dreaming properly. Either you are consistently getting matched with people who do signifincaly more dps than the people I get matched with, or you are grossly exaggerating (be it intentional or not) some of the points that you made. I'm much more inclined to believe that it is the latter.

[Anselmet]

Miasma II vs AoW
I find the complaints about AoW funny, considering it costs you 8% of your MP pool and Miasma II used to cost ~9.3%. Running out of MP due to AoW spam is a problem, but the same thing wasn't a problem with Miasma II? I can only assume most complains about this stem from the fact that WHM/AST have low costs on their AoE. Jealousy, basically.



At 1100 Piety you regen an extra 50 MP per tick. This is easily reachable and practically unavoidable at level 80. This is what you get per minute:
- 10% from Aetherflow
- 35% from Lucid Dreaming
- 50% from passive regen
You are restoring 95% of your MP pool per minute.

In Stormblood:
- 12.5% from Aetherflow
- ~19% from Lucid Dreaming
- 40% from passive regen
- up to 26% from ED (up to 4 per minute)
You were restoring ~98% of your MP pool per minute (if using only ED).

So what did you have extra in Stormblood?
- ~11% from Refresh
- ~8% from Mana Shift

What do you have extra in Shadowbringers?
- Significantly more OGCD options that have zero MP cost


So what is the issue? People are not mashing their Lucid Dreaming button on cooldown.

Okay, so you're comparing Miasma II vs Art of War spam and then claiming that our mp is the same. That is so misguided. You cannot talk about sb SCH aoe damage without adding how Shadowflare (low mp cost) and bane (aether stack) did damage if we did not have the mp to aoe or if we had to heal. I also don't see you mentioning quickened aether flow either. Like you want to say that we have better mp management to aoe now, but then in the same breath don't mention half of stormbloods kit. That's really disingenuous at best. Not to mention if I needed mp energy drain was there. You know, that skill half the people are mourning the loss of in this thread.

[Deceptus]

I feel a lot of Tank and DPS mains lose track why Scholar feels so bad to play now. Imagine a Black Mage with Astral Ice potency cut by more than half, and losing Manafont entirely. That is what the SCH changes boil down to, our Job punishes us for taking advantage of our entire kit, which includes dealing damage.

Just maintaining Bio drains almost more MP than Aetherflow can restore, which mind you is already just a pitiful 1k MP every 60 seconds. If you add Ruin and Adloquium to that you're well in a range where you'd need at least double that MP regeneration just to break even. By giving us back an Energy Drain equivalent, let's call it 'Manafocus' that grants us an additional 10% MP at the cost of one Aetherflow stack, we could trade in healing potency to sustain our MP better, which in turn gives us more usage of Adloquium and we can assist as a tertiary DPS even if it's as simple as using Bio and Ruin between healing.

Agreed, without Energy Drain, Aetherflow needs to go back to the old 20% that it was before. Energy Drain was the whole reason Aetherflow was nerfed to begin with.

[Brandedblade]

I doubt it was intended. It's just instant because aura blast is instant. Like always they put the minimum effort into healers, so they instead of making a new animation, they just reused an animation from a PVP ability.

It feels like it had more thought put into it then Miasma II. At least it gives sch aoe damage without usurping another skills viability as a weaving tool.