Giving back scholar dps skills?

[LariaKirin]

Which is better in terms of what will make me do more damage the majority of the time? Art of war, if you ignore how fast we run out of mp. Personally though I'd much rather miasma II, as I think a lot of other people in here would. It's a lot more fun/interesting than art of war, and I actually used it in fights that had two target situations like in deltascape v3 and unending coil to name a few. Also if my mp was running low, I would let the dot tick for its full duration before I would use it again, to get more potency per mp. Art of war is just so boring, it might be effective I guess, but it's no fun.

I don't ignore it's MP cost. But when comparing to Miasma II, people seem to ignore Miasma II's MP cost:

AoW is 800 MP out of 10000 => 8% of your MP pool
MiasmaII was 1680 out of ~18000 (in 4.5 bis) => 9.3% of your MP pool

It is better in every way, except for a few rare scenarios.

[Lagomorph]

I don't ignore it's MP cost. But when comparing to Miasma II, people seem to ignore Miasma II's MP cost:

AoW is 800 MP out of 10000 => 8% of your MP pool
MiasmaII was 1680 out of ~18000 (in 4.5 bis) => 9.3% of your MP pool

It is better in every way, except for a few rare scenarios.

I really don't think that these scenarios are as rare as you think that they are. If I'm spamming misama 2, it's effectively 125 per cast, because it will always do 100 base damage plus extending the dot by 1 tick (25 potency). If I'm using just 1 gcd between each miasma 2, I am at least equal to art of war. This means that at 2-4 targets miasma 2 is actually better than art of war, because at that number of targets you would want to be rotating biolysis on enemies. Even then, this is just from a pure dps standpoint. At 5 or more targets, if I have to do more than 2 gcd heals between each cast of miasma 2 or art of war, then miasma 2 becomes the superior option. Further, like I said earlier, if you run low on MP, miasma 2 is quite a bit more potency per mp than art of war is. But anyways, I only mentioned all of this because you wanted to talk about efficiency/potency so badly. I think my main point in the post that you quoted was that miasma 2 was a more fun skill to have than art of war?

[Saefinn]

If DPS balance has been such an issue, they could give us something else to do. AST already has cards, give them more to do with them, replace the missing DPS stuff with more support mechanics to help make the jobs more engaging in their downtime from healing.

- SCH could have a debuff focus, a whole mechanic system based around the idea of enfeeblement. We used to have enfeeblements tied to our DPS skills, maybe replace the DPS skills with a better version of them?
- AST would have been happy with their previous card system, let them keep it as it was and add more to it to keep them occupied with it more in their downtime.
- WHM could have a system like the new card system if allowing AST to use their old one, I mean the ideas aren't bad with what they did to AST's cards, but if adjusted and made more WHM appropriate, then they've got something in their down time to do and finally get utility like they've been wanting. Maybe rework the lilies to be this system, because lilies are still an issue.

The result would be you're balancing the utility of each job, rather than utility and DPS. The three jobs would have more to do in their down time.

I've played some of new AST and it's not as boring to play as others, because they've got more to do in their downtime, which is what I've always assumed the reason for their lack of DPS skills was. Granted, I wholeheartedly understand the complaints of careers AST, which is why I think instead of changing AST to replace an existing mechanic with a new one, they could have given a new one to a healer that's both looking for more to do and more utility, like WHM.

[Dyvid]

If DPS balance has been such an issue, they could give us something else to do. AST already has cards, give them more to do with them, replace the missing DPS stuff with more support mechanics to help make the jobs more engaging in their downtime from healing.

- SCH could have a debuff focus, a whole mechanic system based around the idea of enfeeblement. We used to have enfeeblements tied to our DPS skills, maybe replace the DPS skills with a better version of them?
- AST would have been happy with their previous card system, let them keep it as it was and add more to it to keep them occupied with it more in their downtime.
- WHM could have a system like the new card system if allowing AST to use their old one, I mean the ideas aren't bad with what they did to AST's cards, but if adjusted and made more WHM appropriate, then they've got something in their down time to do and finally get utility like they've been wanting. Maybe rework the lilies to be this system, because lilies are still an issue.

The result would be you're balancing the utility of each job, rather than utility and DPS. The three jobs would have more to do in their down time.

I've played some of new AST and it's not as boring to play as others, because they've got more to do in their downtime, which is what I've always assumed the reason for their lack of DPS skills was. Granted, I wholeheartedly understand the complaints of careers AST, which is why I think instead of changing AST to replace an existing mechanic with a new one, they could have given a new one to a healer that's both looking for more to do and more utility, like WHM.

This is very sensible. SCH not only lost dps skills but also lost utility skills along with it. Fey Wind, Shadow Flare?

[Brandedblade]

1) No it's not unless your spamming it. 200 pot Miasma 2 vs 150 AoW

2) Because AoW doesn't fit with the new design of healers needing to heal? Miasma II does. Pop Miasma II, heal some, pop it again 6s later.

All they'd have to do is keep the initial hit low enough so it's not spammed and the dot strong enough to warrant use..

1) When spamming it you loose the dot potency. So while yes it is weaker you're loosing potency when you spam it in aoe situation.

2. Literally the only difference between Miasma II and AoW is one has a dot and the other doesn't. You can still use it and even Ruin II for weaving your ogcd heals.

[Rivxkobe]

People acting like SE WOULDN'T give SCH back a DPS move to appease their favourite Healer.

/Flashbacks to SB release

[Brandedblade]

Large pulls in dungeons when you have to focus on healing the tank? Which is what the intended goal of Shadowbringers is.

Good thing art of war is instant and sch also has a crap ton of ogcd healing. It's almost like that was the strength of AoW and as much as the extra mp cost hurts, was intended to balance that strength against? I've done a few dungeons where I would weave lustrates between AoW spamming to keep the tank up.

[Ariane]

Good thing art of war is instant and sch also has a crap ton of ogcd healing. It's almost like that was the strength of AoW and as much as the extra mp cost hurts, was intended to balance that strength against? I've done a few dungeons where I would weave lustrates between AoW spamming to keep the tank up.

I doubt it was intended. It's just instant because aura blast is instant. Like always they put the minimum effort into healers, so they instead of making a new animation, they just reused an animation from a PVP ability.

[Reimmi]

It's kinda funny, all i miss is energy drain, and i prefered miasma 2 to the new aoe, but other than that scholar still has by far the most buttons out of all my jobs, so it's still fun, as long as i'm not at low level content where damage is too low and i just press 1/2 while the fairy keeps everyone up

Only 3 things i feel need to happen:
Aetherflow needs to be useable outside combat again, if they don't add energy drain back this change was 100% pointless, having extra healing at the start of the fight never matters
Energy drain back, it feels bad to have to dump stacks on over healing, if not this, then i would like to see a OGCD Shield that uses our aetherflow added, since thats not overhealing
Last, art of war needs to cost 600, it's instant unlike whm/ast's aoe, and it costs more, so our MP gets drained way too fast

[Kyumimi]

I feel a lot of Tank and DPS mains lose track why Scholar feels so bad to play now. Imagine a Black Mage with Astral Ice potency cut by more than half, and losing Manafont entirely. That is what the SCH changes boil down to, our Job punishes us for taking advantage of our entire kit, which includes dealing damage.

Just maintaining Bio drains almost more MP than Aetherflow can restore, which mind you is already just a pitiful 1k MP every 60 seconds. If you add Ruin and Adloquium to that you're well in a range where you'd need at least double that MP regeneration just to break even. By giving us back an Energy Drain equivalent, let's call it 'Manafocus' that grants us an additional 10% MP at the cost of one Aetherflow stack, we could trade in healing potency to sustain our MP better, which in turn gives us more usage of Adloquium and we can assist as a tertiary DPS even if it's as simple as using Bio and Ruin between healing.