New drk is too much fun!

[TouchandFeel]

... I've only tried DRK on dummies and Overworld mobs ...

Therein lies the problem. Measure the job by content that requires zero thought and it will unsurprisingly feel mindless. This is nothing new to this incarnation of DRK. HW and SB DRK were also boring on open-world mobs and dummies. You are comparing your memory of what DRK used to play like, which is formed of your entire experience of DRK in all the different content you played it in, against DRK participating in the least engaging and interactive content possible. It's like only doing FATEs with a job and then saying it feels boring, well of course it does you're grinding FATEs.

[MerlinCross]

There in lies the problem. Measure the job by content that requires zero thought and it will unsurprisingly feel mindless. This is nothing new to this incarnation of DRK. HW and SB DRK were also boring on open-world mobs and dummies. You are comparing your memory of what DRK used to play like, which is formed of your entire experience of DRK in all the different content you played it in, against DRK participating in the least engaging and interactive content possible. It's like only doing FATEs with a job and then saying it feels boring, well of course it does you're grinding FATEs.

No I don't think so. See I've also tried it against older content. Mainly Alexander and Omega stuff along with some Trials. Read not new content.

Not to mention, unlike other classes, DRK doesn't look to change from 70-80. Our AoE game increases, but to me our AoE was fine anyway. Thanks for the bonus but I don't see how Stalwart Soul is going to change how it feels/flows. Maybe against more targets but most end game content is against a single target.

Put simply, It doesn't feel like it flows right against old content and easier Overworld mobs/fates. I don't see why the challenge and speed of Boss fights is going to make it flow better considering the amount of things that can throw off the flow/groove even more. Especially since we don't get anything that radically changes how it plays. Put a different way; DRG and SAM seem to still flow okay to me in dungeons, old content and overworld mobs. New DRK just doesn't click for me though. I think I see what I'm supposed to do and what's expected of me. I think I see how the abilities are supposed to flow.

Simply throwing that into faster/harder combat doesn't sound like it's going to change how it place.

Now, whether or not the class is BAD is up for debate. Heck it could be an actual improvement. But it just doesn't feel fun for me to play anymore.

[shao32]

No I don't think so. See I've also tried it against older content. Mainly Alexander and Omega stuff along with some Trials. Read not new content.

Not to mention, unlike other classes, DRK doesn't look to change from 70-80. Our AoE game increases, but to me our AoE was fine anyway. Thanks for the bonus but I don't see how Stalwart Soul is going to change how it feels/flows. Maybe against more targets but most end game content is against a single target.

Put simply, It doesn't feel like it flows right against old content and easier Overworld mobs/fates. I don't see why the challenge and speed of Boss fights is going to make it flow better considering the amount of things that can throw off the flow/groove even more. Put a different way; DRG and SAM seem to still flow okay to me in dungeons, old content and overworld mobs. New DRK just doesn't click for me though.

Now, whether or not the class is BAD is up for debate. Heck it could be an actual improvement. But it just doesn't feel fun for me to play anymore.

stalwart soul increase our resources and make it less boring since you won't spam all day unleash and make quietus/flood up more often but to me feel that the skill is there to fill part of what they take and still don't be enough and the most important, DRK feels horrible in lower content without it.

i agree part of the enjoyment is fit the job gameplay on the fight but if the job is insufferably boring you will hate it , other jobs feels good no mather what what are you doing so idk why this should be a excuse for DRK.

[MerlinCross]

stalwart soul increase our resources and make it less boring since you won't spam all day unleash and make quietus/flood up more often but to me feel that the skill is there to fill part of what they take and still don't be enough and the most important, DRK feels horrible in lower content without it.

i agree part of the enjoyment is fit the job gameplay on the fight but if the job is insufferably boring you will hate it , other jobs feels good no mather what what are you doing so idk why this should be a excuse for DRK.

Again, that fixes/upgrades our AoE game but that was something I never thought was a problem in the first place for the class. Or at worst actually makes it more boring. I'm sorry, I just find the AoE Spam turns off part of my brain till things are dead. I mean a lot of classes got AoE extenders or fixes but I don't find those fun to use. Upgrades sure but they don't radically change how the class feels.

Also as for why it's an Excuse for DRK, it's not. Well it's not the only one on the cut/chopping block. I was wary about using AST cards but now I find the idea too boring to try it now. MNK continues to feel weird, and Paladin feels really REALLY bad at low level content to the point I'm considering popping a skip potion. Gunbreaker, while has a nice flow against overworld content and dummies, feels a bit off in dungeons, have yet to try with Trials. And even with the changes, I fear messing up on the Pet classes.

I could go on but there's a reason I have a small amount of classes at or above 70, and it's not just due to the amount of time it takes to grind them up. I haven't brought them up though because it's well a DRK topic.

[Lyth]

You're always going to get some degree of backlash after a rework like this, because people have to relearn everything and not everyone is particularly adaptable.

I know that TBN/Quietus/AD for infinite resources back in SB may have seemed like it was particularly clever, but it wasn't. Mass pulls in expert dungeons are never going to feel scintillating, but this version is marginally more intelligent.

But let's face it, the part that everyone actually cares about is single target, and that's where DRK has improved the most. You have three buff windows that come together in five different combinations. Each plays out slightly differently. You don't need to sit on resources, but you do need to know when to reach a specific threshold and how long it's going to take you to get there.

This is particularly important for LS. Blood tends to be our "slower" resource, especially since you don't gain any under Delirium (unless BW is also active). I feel that this is the one that you have to pay the closest attention to, especially when it's due to come off cooldown shortly.

Either way, I was having hours of fun doing primals yesterday, despite the fact that the fights themselves are extremely simple. I can only imagine what it's going to be like in more interesting content.

[Ignimortis]

I know that TBN/Quietus/AD for infinite resources back in SB may have seemed like it was particularly clever, but it wasn't. Mass pulls in expert dungeons are never going to feel scintillating, but this version is marginally more intelligent.

It was. DRK had the best door-to-door pulls in the game, and it was fun to actually have some place to use Dark Passenger. Right now there's less self-sustain and despite potencies being increased, the actual combos hurt the mobs less, because their health was increased to compensate. I don't see how 5.0's DRK is supposed to be more intelligent in AoE situations.

But let's face it, the part that everyone actually cares about is single target, and that's where DRK has improved the most.

Numbers-wise, yes. It's better because the game is more focused around burst windows now. But unless you like that sort of thing, you have to notice that DRKs sit twiddling your thumbs for half the fight, because MP regen is too slow, and there's no more haste, so you're stuck at 2.4 recasts. I don't understand why people think that making DRK a slow, burst-window class instead of fast sustained DPS class was a good thing. You can play PLD or WAR for those things already.

[shao32]

Again, that fixes/upgrades our AoE game but that was something I never thought was a problem in the first place for the class. Or at worst actually makes it more boring. I'm sorry, I just find the AoE Spam turns off part of my brain till things are dead. I mean a lot of classes got AoE extenders or fixes but I don't find those fun to use. Upgrades sure but they don't radically change how the class feels.

Also as for why it's an Excuse for DRK, it's not. Well it's not the only one on the cut/chopping block. I was wary about using AST cards but now I find the idea too boring to try it now. MNK continues to feel weird, and Paladin feels really REALLY bad at low level content to the point I'm considering popping a skip potion. Gunbreaker, while has a nice flow against overworld content and dummies, feels a bit off in dungeons, have yet to try with Trials. And even with the changes, I fear messing up on the Pet classes.

I could go on but there's a reason I have a small amount of classes at or above 70, and it's not just due to the amount of time it takes to grind them up. I haven't brought them up though because it's well a DRK topic.

oh don't misunderstand me im complete agreed if DRK wasn't broken there why fix it? i have the opinion that the Devs team just make a poor job and destroy everything about DRK for no reason, and instead of bring quality of live to his kit and new mechanics they make this frankestein and it's suck.

the second part it's the same, there is no excuse, if a job is boring in the most basic stuff it will be boring in the hardest one.

[Nedkel]

oh don't misunderstand me im complete agreed if DRK wasn't broken there why fix it? i have the opinion that the Devs team just make a poor job and destroy everything about DRK for no reason, and instead of bring quality of live to his kit and new mechanics they make this frankestein and it's suck.

the second part it's the same, there is no excuse, if a job is boring in the most basic stuff it will be boring in the hardest one.

It was bad and poor for majority of Stormblood expansion.
Unbalanced in single and multi enemy scenarios, with lots of skills and abilities that were a noob traps if not used right, very small gains with excessive amount effort needed to put into.
DRK was not fun for people who did not know how to optimise it from 0 to 100, it was least played tank because of it.
Maybe i am repeating myself, but how would a stormblood DRK look in comparison to todays tanks? No one would be playing it.

[Reynhart]

Unbalanced in single and multi enemy scenarios

Nothing taht couldn't be fixed with potency adjustments, and the additionn of Stalwart Soul, which is most likely the only skill everyone agrees on.

DRK was not fun for people who did not know how to optimise it from 0 to 100, it was least played tank because of it.

Considering any balance issue only matters at max level, and in Savage content, you should expect people to optimize their tank. At some point, you really need to stop baby-sitting your players, especially if they have less demanding jobs available.

[shao32]

It was bad and poor for majority of Stormblood expansion.
Unbalanced in single and multi enemy scenarios, with lots of skills and abilities that were a noob traps if not used right, very small gains with excessive amount effort needed to put into.
DRK was not fun for people who did not know how to optimise it from 0 to 100, it was least played tank because of it.
Maybe i am repeating myself, but how would a stormblood DRK look in comparison to todays tanks? No one would be playing it.

i know you don't know the diference betwen numbers and gameplay in terms of balance but big numbers doesn't mean better desing, i can desing a job that is just a 2 buttoms and make it much much better that any job in the game in therms of numbers, it's better designed? well for you looks like a yes, for me? no.

and yes i will play it, every day all the time bcs it's way better that this version, i didn't see anyone complaying DRK was hard to optimice at all or it was less fun for it, the only complains was DA spam a problem that could be solved with qol adjustments.