Scholar 5.0 Discussion

[Yomiko_Nonaka]

That's the issue. The Exceedlingly Boring element of it is purely a matter of opinion and preference. You have folks like me who are used to the more streamlined rotation and dont mind and even prefer it, from my own perspective the job feels about the same, you're still leaning on ogcd heals, and utilizing shielding and damage mitigation preemptively. It was just streamlined. One dot of a decent potency does the same job of two dots of a lower potency. As for the aoe, we did take losses in total potency but our kit is more streamlined. AoW is more expensive then Holy and Gravity but it's also stronger and instant cast.

But that's the other problem. What some people see as nuance and complexity can also be seen as clunkyness and needless busy work to others. As fun as it is to debate and discuss ultimately it's going to be futile no matter what the devs do. You're either going to please the people who want complexity and alienate everyone else, or you're going to please the everyone else and alienate those who want complexity.

you can definitely please both kind of players. you said yourself, the job feel the same for you.
in the other hand, we're a lot who are more that disapointed by all the things we lost. 2 years for that ?

[Sebazy]

But that's the other problem. What some people see as nuance and complexity can also be seen as clunkyness and needless busy work to others. As fun as it is to debate and discuss ultimately it's going to be futile no matter what the devs do. You're either going to please the people who want complexity and alienate everyone else, or you're going to please the everyone else and alienate those who want complexity.

I think a good portion of 'my' crowd would be happier if the job flowed better really. A lot of the changes are quite disruptive to the GCD and APM rate of the job and that's something that SCH has always been good at avoiding in the past. Nothing major, just the little nuances that SE perhaps overlooked such as pet actions now being an oGCD. Being able to use these abilities mid cast again would likely be a good step forward imho.

[Naychan]

That's the issue. The Exceedlingly Boring element of it is purely a matter of opinion and preference.

And your preference is that YOU like it that's fine, I get it. The rest of us don't have to. It seems you are on a personal crusade to change our minds when nobody asked you to. If you want to start a thread with pom pom's and hearts about the new changes please feel free. WE didn't come to this thread to argue with you we came to vent and show OUR displeasure with the bulk of the changes.

[Melorie]

You're either going to please the people who want complexity and alienate everyone else, or you're going to please the everyone else and alienate those who want complexity.

You said yourself that the job feels the same for you. So, giving players that actually want to use the job to it's full potential fun isn't going to alienate the rest of the playerbase that decided to not even use the full kit. You told us of how it doesn't change anything for you.

[Stamps]

But that's the other problem. What some people see as nuance and complexity can also be seen as clunkyness and needless busy work to others. As fun as it is to debate and discuss ultimately it's going to be futile no matter what the devs do. You're either going to please the people who want complexity and alienate everyone else, or you're going to please the everyone else and alienate those who want complexity.

Sure. But I'd argue that when you remove complexity (for good or for ill), those that enjoyed that will try to find complexity elsewhere. In FFXIV's case, the search for complexity will naturally lead to Dungeon and Boss design. Dungeons/Trials are, wisely, designed to allow most groups a high % shot at completing them, regardless of individual skill. This means they aren't going to be naturally hard nor will they be nuanced/complex. This was fine in HW, and "okay" in SB, because players that liked complexity could play games with their skills to eek out that extra 15%, but that 15% wasn't even close to necessary to complete the dungeon. It appealed to both sets of players. It is possible to please both players. FFXIV has done that for two expansions (arguably for SB, but I think so).

I don't foresee SE's dungeon design principles changing all that much. Nor have those principles changed that much in the dungeons I have run. On the face of it, they're probably saving that solely for more hardcore items like Savage raids (and arguably Extreme Trials, though those aren't very complex either). For me, that poses an issue. I'm a casual player, I ground to 80 simply because I had PTO that was going to die by the end of this year so I burned it here. I had fun doing a drop in/drop out for the casual content and found my fun in min-maxing my contribution to dungeons/raids. I generally can't devote more than 1-2hrs a week to FFXIV.

The changes to Sch are pushing me out of FFXIV completely. And that's a shame for me, so I'm going to say it's a shame. If you'll note, despite playing FFXIV since a bit before HW launch, this is my first forum post in many years. It's because I'm finally dissatisfied enough to voice it.

[OmegaSinX]

The joke is on anyone who plays this job considering the changes they're pushing onto the community. My personal favorite is how instead of fixing Selene, they just made her Eos...I mean what a laugh! It doesn't get any lazier than that.

SE can't defend this at all, it was pure laziness; Its like the team working on SCH said less just delete everything instead of thinking of ways to fix it. At least with SMN they made ifrit a better single target and Garuda better AoE.

[Yomiko_Nonaka]

the devs are definitely more and more lazy. it's like they forget everuthingss that happened since 1.0.

And it's a shame. they had the passion to give the game a second chance, and that chance was well deserved. they manage to changed a disaster into one of the best MMO you can find.

But that passion is gone.

[Brandedblade]

And your preference is that YOU like it that's fine, I get it. The rest of us don't have to. It seems you are on a personal crusade to change our minds when nobody asked you to. If you want to start a thread with pom pom's and hearts about the new changes please feel free. WE didn't come to this thread to argue with you we came to vent and show OUR displeasure with the bulk of the changes.

I was just giving myself up as an example of someone who's fine with things being more streamlined. I'm fully aware that my opinion is ultimately irrelevant, especially here in this thread.

The point I was attempting to make was that if anything, no ones gonna be pleased no matter which way you take it. Someone will either hate it or someone will love it. Someone will be upset if the class is too complex, someone will be upset if it's too simple. I do agree there are issues that need to be addressed, like the lack of an aetherflow dump is a big one, but the problem I'm seeing is that the "it's boring arguement" is one that is a matter of opinon.

[Brandedblade]

Also I would like to point out that everytime someone does make a thread being positive you folks still jump on there and sprout negative opinions, so it can't possibly be any worse then throwing positive opinions in the more negative threads.

[Melorie]

Also I would like to point out that everytime someone does make a thread being positive you folks still jump on there and sprout negative opinions, so it can't possibly be any worse then throwing positive opinions in the more negative threads.

I wasn't aware that if someone makes a thread with an opinion/a vision of something on a forum meant for discussion about the class, people can't share their own opinion too, because otherwise they're being "negative".
If you want to talk about what do you think of the class without someone disagreeing with you, I suggest you do it with friends and not on a forum meant for feedback. No one is stopping you from telling what you think, but when you decide to share your opinion on a place like here, people also have the right to question it.

If you can't deal with that I'm sorry, but maybe a place meant for feedback and discussion is not the place for you.

I'm seeing is that the "it's boring arguement" is one that is a matter of opinon.

Boring is actually a valid feedback if you're talking about something the involves gameplay or a game in general. But the thread is also full of explanations of what "boring" means, and what makes the gameplay boring. Also if a enough part of the playerbase finds the class boring then maybe it's something more than just a subjective perspective.