Opinions on Positionals

[Hussain]

Would like some expansion for the Ranged classes, though instead of direction, have it be distance.

No thank you

[Jonnycbad]

I thought the concept was Melee did more DPS than ranged because they have positionals and are in range of most mechanics, meanwhile ranged would deal less DPS but have mroe raid buff support and be able to ignore positionals and not be targeted by as many mechanics.

In practice, DRG and NIN are on the bottom end of DPS, and BRD and MCH do higher DPS, weird, right? I hope moving forward in 5.0, they stress the concept of meleeing being stronger than ranged, since ranged can often times have 100% uptime, and melee can't (big fists/Long Needle Kyrios, Umbral Smash, etc). They originally addressed this in HW with Gun Mage and Bow Mage mechanics to root physical ranged in place similar to casters, but with SB we saw the return of highly mobile BRD and MCH and their damage is very high. Even if their base DPS isn't high against a dummy, their end-result DPS is higher simply because they can DPS while dropping puddles out of range, or when a boss leaps to the other side of the arena, or drops an AoE around its center which melee need run out to avoid (Middy's Azure Wings), but they ranged DPS can dodge those while also dealing with mechanics easily.

[MorbolvampireQueen6]

i did enjoy them but now most abilitys dont have them its booring

[Phoenicia]

I thought the concept was Melee did more DPS than ranged because they have positionals and are in range of most mechanics, meanwhile ranged would deal less DPS but have mroe raid buff support and be able to ignore positionals and not be targeted by as many mechanics.

The BRD and MCH doing more DPS than melee isn't so much because of 100% up-time (as a good melee WILL have ~100% uptime) but to how they are balanced. MCH and BRD are meant do be completely viable in any setup are balanced to be so. When DRG enters the mix they just shoot up thanks to pierce debuff and raid buff that caters to the heavy burst-reliance nature of BRD and MCH.

[Reimmi]

they're fine, but i think we can all agree that positionals should be disabled in the open world, melee shouldn't do less damage just because they're solo lol

[Makarrov]

For the most part I don’t mind positionals but do have a few issues with them.

1-doing noticeably less damage when face tanking mobs is no fun. Non-boss type world mobs should have no positionals like those in PotD.

2-additional effects should not be tied to landing the positional. Potency increases are fine, but things like Trick Attack not applying the debuff if the boss spins is just insult to injury.

3-tanks that spin bosses. When I talk I do everything I can to minimize movement and turning bosses. There are many tanks that don’t seem to care whatsoever about that. This is one case where I’d want positionals removed so melee aren’t punished for having a fidgety tank.

[Rongway]

3-tanks that spin bosses. When I talk I do everything I can to minimize movement and turning bosses. There are many tanks that don’t seem to care whatsoever about that. This is one case where I’d want positionals removed so melee aren’t punished for having a fidgety tank.

This one isn't a problem with the system though; it's a problem with the newbie tank. The fix is to correct the tank; if that doesn't work, replace the tank.

[Shurrikhan]

I like positionals. Especially as a tank with one or more melee I feel it uniquely enhances the experience. I haven't really had to think of that outside of tanking specifically for an Assassin, Feral Druid, or Subtlety Rogue.

I went through a period once where I only moved during fights using my Face Target, W, S, and my diagonals, keeping the melees' targets perfectly in place, and timing my pacifies or free stuns to where I'd otherwise need to interrupt their positionals briefly.

It also gives me a way to increase my melees' damage, if there's only one that needs their positional at a time; I just spin the mob around them so that all their positionals land with them standing in place and looking derpy...

All the more reason it should ve made clear in game.

A little bump at the front/flank edges would be wonderful.

[Shurrikhan]

I thought the concept was Melee did more DPS than ranged because they have positionals and are in range of most mechanics, meanwhile ranged would deal less DPS but have mroe raid buff support and be able to ignore positionals and not be targeted by as many mechanics.

In practice, DRG and NIN are on the bottom end of DPS, and BRD and MCH do higher DPS, weird, right? I hope moving forward in 5.0, they stress the concept of meleeing being stronger than ranged, since ranged can often times have 100% uptime, and melee can't (big fists/Long Needle Kyrios, Umbral Smash, etc). They originally addressed this in HW with Gun Mage and Bow Mage mechanics to root physical ranged in place similar to casters, but with SB we saw the return of highly mobile BRD and MCH and their damage is very high. Even if their base DPS isn't high against a dummy, their end-result DPS is higher simply because they can DPS while dropping puddles out of range, or when a boss leaps to the other side of the arena, or drops an AoE around its center which melee need run out to avoid (Middy's Azure Wings), but they ranged DPS can dodge those while also dealing with mechanics easily.

Everyone is balanced around optimized tDPS. BRD was, frankly, overtuned. MCH was recently overtuned to compete, rather than Bard being nerfed. NIN is now the lowest tDPS damage-dealer in a perfectly optimized party short of running DRG outside of double-ranged, but you can blame that faint theoretical undertuning on its the community's near-erotic love for Trick Attack and its compositional flexibility.

Worry not, though, NIN at least will be indirectly buffed by more jobs having their CDs forced towards multiples of 60 seconds. SAM, especially, will give it even more tDPS.

they're fine, but i think we can all agree that positionals should be disabled in the open world, melee shouldn't do less damage just because they're solo lol

I don't. At all. I can already get my positionals solo, although it's quite frustrating to do so. I'd rather simply see mobs not turn at the speed of light such that we need to snapshot client-based positional checks to supercede server reactions to our movement just to get a positional off in the open world.

tl;dr: Just make it easier to get the positionals. If a huge mob looks like it should be slow and lumber, don't let it spin on a dime. Give some weight to its strikes that freeze it in place a bit and to its general turning speed so that we can either get in close and then slip behind or even sprint around the outside and get a flank in that way.

At present, lock-on mode makes it impossible to get positionals because you can't stand almost infintesimally close to center and move forward for some sixtieth of a second as you hit your Rear attack move to get your positional off; you're always stuck on the ring. That should be something fun to play around with, not limited to awkward gimmicks to make work nor restricted from some third of all players. But if such a fix is possible, it also shouldn't just be removed instead.

[Shurrikhan]

Would like some expansion for the Ranged classes, though instead of direction, have it be distance.

No thank you

Agreed. I'd much rather have (client-checked) draw times on my bow and have my mobility thus checked and constrained somewhat (not Bow Mage levels, but still) than lose the ability to play in optimal locations for preemptive movement just because of a distance-based damage curve.