Shadowbringers RDM Wishlist

[Archwizard]

Personally I just find them boring. DoTs are the least imaginative way to add timing constraints to a job. It's all potency in the end. Why not have something -not a DoT- that effectively achieves the same thing. (A singular action that deals greater potency but gated so you don't just spam it)

For example, what we don't have or have too little of...

A lot of these suggestions are unique, true, and I love them all on some conceptual level. However...

• Verfreeze and Mana Surge have only arbitrary differences from effectively being a DoT -- in fact Verfreeze literally is a DoT, just with ticks 15 sec apart instead of 3 sec; in fact, the more limited number of ticks would normally mean it has an even stricter timer than regular DoTs, if not for the cooldown you wrote in.
• While the damage on Mana Surge has to be manually inflicted, there's nothing to say that couldn't be tied to reapplying a DoT effect -- unless the phrasing is meant to imply that the damage from each burst constantly goes up over the fight, which could both be impractical for many encounters (like ones where the boss can't be targeted for lengthy periods) and flat-out imbalanced in others without a cap (to which reaching a cap would be little different from the heavy buildup for SMN). In either case, you're behaviorally just tying a DoT to the melee combo.
• Biting Blade... is just mechanically awkward, particularly since Contre Sixte and Fleche aren't often timed with our melee, but rather best served between Dualcasts, and often cast in succession (where the effect is not noted to stack); Corps-a-corps is the natural oGCD to hit right before our melee. I suppose Reprise could benefit, but the real question is whether the added damage from this synergy would outweigh the loss of our melee combo, which is just complicated.
• Verflood is an interesting concept that I think could be generally dissected and expanded upon, particularly in the discussion of giving Displacement an actual value, but if targets can only be struck once by each wave thrown out (unless kited along or facing a very large stationary target), then calculating the damage with a delay comes out very arbitrarily compared to just applying a 24-25 sec CD on it. Mechanically it's of very little difference from a persistent AoE (such as Shadow Flare), just that the area moves and the damage grows each tick. More importantly though, the logistics of the moving particle effects that persist over long portions of a fight, particularly without a recast timer preventing one from existing at all times per RDM, could cause a huge amount of lag.
• Rose Nexus would have been a fun toy to play with if our AoE was more limited (don't think I didn't see the Arcane Mage's Prism influence, you). In single target though it would exclusively become a trick on your burst setup, since you now do two Verfinishers in a row that can take up the first two slots, then can either exclusively fire longcasts at it for the last three OR use Manafication (since they share almost the same timer and Scorch allows us to end combos with up to 27/48, a mere 2 GCDs from a perfect setup) and tack on another two Verfinishers on the crystal. And this is all assuming it doesn't get a double-dip bonus from casting Embolden just before popping the last spell or two.

While a DoT may be boring maintenance, the point is that it alters the player's behavior during the base rotation to make it a little more irregular, even if only by a cast every few GCDs. A lot of these really don't even accomplish that much, and those that do are little different from DoTs themselves, so I can't really say they effectively replace a DoT's function.

And if we consider RDM as a job meant to be simple... then maybe these would fit better on another job.

[PatronasCharm]

So, I guess with the media tour long concluded and Shadowbringers a mere week away, some parting thoughts for this thread:

• We have a glaring gap within our kit for an "Oh Sh!t" button. With SMNs now getting a barrier from their Titan-Egis, RDMs are the odd man out amongst caster roles in terms of survivability, particularly with our kit uniquely demanding closed-quarters for short periods. While we do have Vercure, it does cost us both time and resources to cast. While I don't wish for us to get a clone of Manaward or Earthen Armor (as at that point you may as well eliminate Titan-Egi and make Manaward a role action), I do hope we'll have this gap filled with a unique tool befitting RDM's lore and particular style of combat. Likewise, I don't think we should monopolize the field of self-healing and sustainability outside of a raid environment; self-sustainability should be more punishing for a DPS than a core healer (so that each retains their specialities and core efficiencies), but not impossible for someone like a BLM or improbable for a SMN.

Something that they could do is, for button bloating purposes is add a trait to Corpse-a-Corpse. Trait "Phalanx?" A small throwback to FFXI and their Phalanx / Phalanx II.

Perhaps:
Corpse-a-corpse

• Rushes target and delivers an attack with a potency of 130.
• Additional Effect: Phalanx
• Creates a barrier on self that absorbs damage totaling 25% of target's maximum HP.
• Duration: 30s
• Cannot be executed while bound.

Since we're throwing ourselves in the line of fire, the barrier could be useful.
It can also reset upon using Manafecation.

Engagement has a potency loss? Yes, it's safer to use? Well, maybe give it an added bonus for that loss of DPS.

Perhaps add Phalanx II to Engagement

• Creates a barrier on self and target that absorbs damage totaling 20% of target's maximum HP.

And yes, I do too want to see Blizzard in a way, Idk why SE didn't add it to their rotation in 5.0. Maybe a question we could ask Yoshi P.

[Archwizard]

Something that they could do is, for button bloating purposes is add a trait to Corpse-a-Corpse. Trait "Phalanx?" A small throwback to FFXI and their Phalanx / Phalanx II.

Perhaps:
Corpse-a-corpse

• Rushes target and delivers an attack with a potency of 130.
• Additional Effect: Phalanx
• Creates a barrier on self that absorbs damage totaling 25% of target's maximum HP.
• Duration: 30s
• Cannot be executed while bound.

Since we're throwing ourselves in the line of fire, the barrier could be useful.
It can also reset upon using Manafecation.

Ignoring the placeholder values, you realize that's an HP barrier every 40 seconds, right?

To be clear: Manaward for BLM is 30% HP for 20 sec every 2 minutes, with no damage. Earthen Armor for SMN is a 20% HP barrier that comes at a DPS loss. Corps-a-corps is free and part of our rotation.

Engagement has a potency loss? Yes, it's safer to use? Well, maybe give it an added bonus for that loss of DPS.

I think you misunderstand. Nobody's intent is for anything to "make up" for Engagement's potency loss, because Engagement already exists to "make up" for Displacement's risk factor.

What we want is for Engagement to not bloat the toolkit at all. For the devs to remove the band-aid fix on Displacement's innate issues and just address Displacement directly.

At any rate, and a point I'm sure you can get behind: I'd rather not have RDM's OSB be yet another rehash of Manaward, when it has so many unique opportunities of its own from its cross with WHM.

[SaberMaxwell]

I think you misunderstand. Nobody's intent is for anything to "make up" for Engagement's potency loss, because Engagement already exists to "make up" for Displacement's risk factor.

What we want is for Engagement to not bloat the toolkit at all. For the devs to remove the band-aid fix on Displacement's innate issues and just address Displacement directly.

What you want. I'm fine with Displacement / Engagement, and think they are very good decision gates to have in the kit.

[Archwizard]

What you want. I'm fine with Displacement / Engagement, and think they are very good decision gates to have in the kit.

What several of us want, and have said as much in this thread. There are other ways to address Displacement than contributing to bloat by giving us the option to ignore it, especially since it will mean an arbitrary damage penalty based on encounter design. Displacement has issues; that very fact is why we have the band-aid. Engagement is to us what Scathe is to BLMs: the "I couldn't hit what I really wanted" button.

And as I stated, in all likelihood Engagement won't really solve all of the behaviors with Displacement, particularly if the latter remains higher damage. People trying for top parses will try to ignore Engagement as much as possible, meaning a lot of overconfident players will continue leaping to their deaths, despite being its target audience.

[PatronasCharm]

Ignoring the placeholder values, you realize that's an HP barrier every 40 seconds, right?

Ahaha yeah, your right, maybe it might be an overkill, perhaps reducing it to a 10s buff duration. It was just a thought =D

To be clear: Manaward for BLM is 30% HP for 20 sec every 2 minutes, with no damage. Earthen Armor for SMN is a 20% HP barrier that comes at a DPS loss. Corps-a-corps is free and part of our rotation.

At any rate, and a point I'm sure you can get behind: I'd rather not have RDM's OSB be yet another rehash of Manaward, when it has so many unique opportunities of its own from its cross with WHM.

Sort of spitting stuff out at this moment, if we want something unique, how about something like:

[If Black Mana Meter is higher] If 30+ Black Mana accumulation required - Ice Spikes becomes available

Ice Spikes: Creates a barrier that nullifies damage totaling up to 30% of maximum HP.

• Duration: 20s
• Additional Effect: Ice Form
• 15% Of damage dealt converted to MP
• Duration: 20s

[If White Mana Meter is higher] 30+ White Mana accumulated required - Stoneskin

Stoneskin: Creates a barrier that nullifies damage totaling up to 30% of maximum HP.

• Duration: 20s
• Additional Effect: Grants healing over time effect
• Cure Potency: 100
• Duration: 20s

I know you mentioned something like this in a post before, but can't recall what you described. How would you craft something along the lines of Manaward / Earthen Barrier with a unique RDM twist?

[SaberMaxwell]

What several of us want, and have said as much in this thread. There are other ways to address Displacement than contributing to bloat by giving us the option to ignore it, especially since it will mean an arbitrary damage penalty based on encounter design. Displacement has issues; that very fact is why we have the band-aid. Engagement is to us what Scathe is to BLMs: the "I couldn't hit what I really wanted" button.

Engagement versus Displacement is, in my opinion, a strong decision to have a player make and a good bit of depth all on its own. Having to choose between 200 potency and forced movement, or 150 potency and no forced movement, I think, tasks the player to keep an eye on several variables in the battlefield. I'll narrow these to two main categories:

1: Battlefield Awareness
Of course, this includes "Is the arena really small?" That's the only one of these I see most people ever consider in this category. Other considerations that are worth taking into account are:
"Is there anything behind me that I need to be aware of?" This includes AoEs, teammates that you do not want to be near (including "They have an AoE" or "You have an AoE"), boss placement, boss mechanics that might target the farthest player, whether an AoE is a "donut" so one can capitalize on ranging the AoE instead of standing under the boss, and many more things besides.

Of course you can backflip off of the arena. You can also backflip into AoEs, into teammates, your backflip can alter boss behavior (Seiryu EX as an example); your backflip can also put you in an out-of-the-way location so nobody steps over your twisters, keep you well out of the feather rain bait stack so neither you nor your team need to worry if you are in any way unstacked.

2: Team Awareness
This category includes much more team-focused considerations, including raid buffs and raid healing. It's happened several times where my Displacement usage has caused me to lose out on Battle Litany; it's never happened to me that using Displacement has gotten me killed due to lack of healing, however, because I take very good care to not displace during raid busters. The latter is certainly also very possible. Being aware of your team's actions will help you make better decisions regarding displacement, and get more out of the ability.

It's important to note that, in all of these situations, "Just hold displacement" is a valid answer. It's also worthy to note that, every second Displacement isn't used is a second it's not cooling down; this is, in most cases, much more of a loss than using an ability like Engagement. Holding Displacement for any reason is going to put you in a weird spot, which is one big thing I think we'll see Engagement used as from now on: immediate followup to Manafy. You can't Displace during the melee combo, but you *can* Engagement during it.

That said, 4 Engagements is only equivalent to 3 Displacements; meaning every four times Engagement is used, you are essentially forfeiting one Displacement entirely. Keeping that in mind, you know exactly what the reward is when you refuse the risk outright.

You can look at it like an "I couldn't hit what I really wanted" button or a "bandaid that solves nothing," I see it as an increase to the decisionmaking that Displacement gives the job. That's why it's perplexing to me, given all of these thoughts I need to take into account regarding a singular ability of Red Mage's, that you want it gone (or mitigated) and yet advocate for Red Mage to get a DoT because it's much needed "depth of gameplay." I don't need to think about a DoT like I need to think about Displacement.

[Archwizard]

I know you mentioned something like this in a post before, but can't recall what you described. How would you craft something along the lines of Manaward / Earthen Barrier with a unique RDM twist?

My thinking has been a brief mitigation skill based on Reflect. Very short uptime (we don't really need more than 10 sec of protection for most purposes), but with a potent counterattack based on the damage blocked if timed properly, to fit with the fencing theme.

Direct mitigation is always an alternative to absorption, as is increasing evasion chance (albeit the latter is not my favorite since you'd put all your eggs in one basket against big hits like Protostar or Wave Cannon). Could even have us play into our WHM side and have us place a barrier for allies, though that would probably get nerfed to hell and back.

[CorbinDallas]

It's the reason I swapped to RDM off of BLM, 'cuz I didn't take the stress of having to fight the Enochian timer and the DoT and the boss at the same time very well.

BLM has such a strict rotation that applying Thunder is braindead by nature. Enochian is another. Sorry not sorry, but you're just flat out bad at BLM if you can't maintain Enochian at this point, it's the Greased Lightning of casters and they make it easier and easier. Heck they're making it even easier in 5.0 by increasing the duration of AF/UI to 15s.

Just do your rotation and "git gud" at the job, and these timers and buffs become second nature to the point that your full focus is on uptime and fighting the boss.

[Zyneste]

Sort of spitting stuff out at this moment, if we want something unique, how about something like:

I've always liked the idea of something that had a different effect based on mana, but wary because of the shape of troubadour. It would be a bit better controlled though, and as long as the differences aren't huge I don't see too much of an issue.

Something like [potencies can be adjusted] on a 90 second cool down:

When White mana is above 30 and greater than Black mana- 10% Shield on target with a regen [something like 100 potency over 12 seconds, In game now that would be something like 7,500 mitigation + ~11,400]

When Black mana is above 30 and greater than White mana- 20% shield on target.

When Black and White mana are equal or are both below 30- 15% shield on the target only.


Move Engagement to level 40, slap this skill in and call it a day. ;c