The loss of Shield Swipe

[Lyth]

A really easy way to make Swipe work would have been to have it proc either if you take damage with Sheltron active or if an ally takes damage with Intervention/Cover active. PLDs are historically bodyguards to the Sultanate, so you would expect the knight with the big riot shield to prod you in the back with it every time that you try to bully their wards. 'Oi.'

I know that interrupts are supposed to be more important from a tank perspective this time around, but I still think that I'd prefer keeping Swipe over Bash. I wish that 'counterattacking' was more a part of the tanking aesthetic.

[ADVSS]

A really easy way to make Swipe work would have been to have it proc either if you take damage with Sheltron active or if an ally takes damage with Intervention/Cover active. PLDs are historically bodyguards to the Sultanate, so you would expect the knight with the big riot shield to prod you in the back with it every time that you try to bully their wards. 'Oi.'

I know that interrupts are supposed to be more important from a tank perspective this time around, but I still think that I'd prefer keeping Swipe over Bash. I wish that 'counterattacking' was more a part of the tanking aesthetic.

I agree but we all know why it and reprisal/low blows in their original forms are gone. Though a repurposed SS could totally work, oh yeah except for a similar reason but oppositte. Essentially, these skills somehow would put a tank in more of a MT or OT position, esp if its a dps gain to do so.

[Shurrikhan]

I agree but we all know why it and reprisal/low blows in their original forms are gone. Though a repurposed SS could totally work, oh yeah except for a similar reason but oppositte. Essentially, these skills somehow would put a tank in more of a MT or OT position, esp if its a dps gain to do so.

The reason is well noted, sure, but that doesn't mean we have to find it reasonable. Personally, I prefer for tanks to need to be, well, tanking, to use their full kit. Make them equally "MT" if you must, but I'd rather have tanks swapping in to use their CDs at greater efficiency then each have a their own --mostly homogeneous-- OT external mitigation. I didn't mind PLD mostly having a dominion on that stuff because it is, frankly, just utility (so long as the external mitigation comes at shared resource cost to personal mitigation or to proportionate cost to their selection of other "free" utilities).

[ADVSS]

The reason is well noted, sure, but that doesn't mean we have to find it reasonable. Personally, I prefer for tanks to need to be, well, tanking, to use their full kit. Make them equally "MT" if you must, but I'd rather have tanks swapping in to use their CDs at greater efficiency then each have a their own --mostly homogeneous-- OT external mitigation. I didn't mind PLD mostly having a dominion on that stuff because it is, frankly, just utility.

Absolutely agree. but then theres always going to be "cuts" and button bloat is just the easiest reason for those cuts, I suppose. Personally, I'm all for all the tanks having some sort of reactive play, since stuns and such lost their effectiveness after 50

[Shurrikhan]

Absolutely agree. but then theres always going to be "cuts" and button bloat is just the easiest reason for those cuts, I suppose. Personally, I'm all for all the tanks having some sort of reactive play, since stuns and such lost their effectiveness after 50

But then, why are we adding bloat?
Rounding out every toolkit to the same AoE combos without giving them stacked action keys... It's not like you need to spend more hotbar slots on AoE to make it more powerful or even more animation-impressive.
Rounding out every toolkit with external mitigation at cost of personal mitigation despite their providing the same throughput (so long as no swap need occur more often than the trickled durations of their co-tanks CDs and AM to make use of said throughput)... Why, when we could instead be making tanks feel more like tanks rather than just DPS with a premium mitigation insurance package?

Yeah Vengeance is a weird one, but I do really like its concept. TBF though, seeing the direction things are going with tanks, I dont think id expect to see the counter attacking even being part of it by 6.0. I was just legitimizing some of the reasoning why theyd remove these skills to begin with, not that I agree with the decisions(which I don't)

Heck, I'd still be more fond of building on Warrior's 2.0 Inner Beast (not the skill, the general concept) theme and having Vengeance provide... no mitigation. Just have it jack up your stats and build Defiance based on %base HP damage taken or what damage would have been taken if not for your (and shields') mitigation and start automatically counter-attacking. Let Defiance and Deliverance resources exist simultaneously, one granting greater healing taken (from all sources) and total HP while the other increases crit chance and bonus. Finally, all Defiance skills heal on Crit. Voila. You push Deliverance as far as you can go to guarantee your next Inner Beast (now effectively a Minus Strike, hitting for more based on missing HP) self-heal via Crit for massive spring-back, with just enough Defiance resource built prior to ensure you can survive the initial hit.

Had they just buffed 2.0 Warrior in its own way, instead of shoeing in the kit components of the current staple prog tank as if that were the end-all-be-all of tanking... I honestly think XIV tanking could have gone amazing places. So much of XIV has been cut so shallow by the plainest sense of "pragmatism" -- void of foresight or any real interest in their own visions for whatever individual component -- though, that it's no surprise that our tanks have ended up as homogenized as they will be in Shadowbringers...

Long story short, I ask myself these same questions. If all else fails, its probably because WAR doesnt have a shield(yet)

What's that shoulder-shaking thing that gives bonus HP then? Sorry, semantics...

[ADVSS]

But then, why are we adding bloat?
Rounding out every toolkit to the same AoE combos without giving them stacked action keys... It's not like you need to spend more hotbar slots on AoE to make it more powerful or even more animation-impressive.
Rounding out every toolkit with external mitigation at cost of personal mitigation despite their providing the same throughput (so long as no swap need occur more often than the trickled durations of their co-tanks CDs and AM to make use of said throughput)... Why, when we could instead be making tanks feel more like tanks rather than just DPS with a premium mitigation insurance package?

Long story short, I ask myself these same questions. If all else fails, its probably because WAR doesnt have a shield(yet)

[Lyth]

I agree but we all know why it and reprisal/low blows in their original forms are gone. Though a repurposed SS could totally work, oh yeah except for a similar reason but oppositte. Essentially, these skills somehow would put a tank in more of a MT or OT position, esp if its a dps gain to do so.

You mean like Vengeance, right? I can see the reasoning, but if that were truly the case, it shouldn't be applied with a double standard. Button bloat makes more sense, but even there, it was probably one of the more fun abilities in PLD's kit.

It's actually not that difficult to incorporate counterattacks for all tanks. Every tank has an MT and OT on-demand/short recast cooldown. Just tie a counterattack proc to both, such that you get rewarded for mitigating well. Or even use an existing oGCD, and just have it reset on proc.

[ADVSS]

You mean like Vengeance, right? I can see the reasoning, but if that were truly the case, it shouldn't be applied with a double standard. Button bloat makes more sense, but even there, it was probably one of the more fun abilities in PLD's kit.

It's actually not that difficult to incorporate counterattacks for all tanks. Every tank has an MT and OT on-demand/short recast cooldown. Just tie a counterattack proc to both, such that you get rewarded for mitigating well. Or even use an existing oGCD, and just have it reset on proc.

Yeah Vengeance is a weird one, but I do really like its concept. TBF though, seeing the direction things are going with tanks, I dont think id expect to see the counter attacking even being part of it by 6.0. I was just legitimizing some of the reasoning why theyd remove these skills to begin with, not that I agree with the decisions(which I don't)