Eorzea has much Light? How?

[LineageRazor]

Well, on the topic of "hands over chest", that could be explained away by the fact that both entities have the appearance of topless women, and there's only so many ways a topless woman can be presented in a PG-rated video game. :P

Aside from that, though, I acknowledge that there's some resemblance between Seraph Ultima and the image of presumably-Hydaelyn from the Shadowbringers artwork. Aside from the crossed arms, both have wings (Hy's being distinctly more angelic, while Ulti's are bony and skeletal) and both have some kind of feathery protrusions on their heads. I think it's too soon, though, to presume that the two are the same kind of entity - or, even if they are, that it is necessarily case that both have the same kind of incomprehensible morality.

It's important to consider that Seraph Ultima is explicitly otherworldly, why Hydaelyn is so worldly that she literally IS the world. Ultima somehow wound up transported to Hydaelyn, a world alien to her, and was immediately made the subject of worship by humans. It's all she's ever known of them, and came to accept them as beings whose sole purpose is to worship her and ask for favors. The first people she met who did NOT offer her worship instead fought and imprisoned her, so it's not too surprising she reacted with hostility when more such entities appeared. Heck, it's notable that when we first encountered her, she attempted a PEACEFUL resolution, first - she offered gifts, and presented herself for worship.

Hydaelyn, on the other hand, knows humans inside and out; they've lived upon her for many thousands of years, and she's seen every aspect of how they are born, live, and die. Even if we nonetheless imagine that her concept of morality is different from that of humans (which, itself, postulates the ludicrous assumption that humans some kind of universal concept of morality), it's a big step to assume that hers is incompatible with ours. Alien = cannot be trusted is pretty much the definition of xenophobia.

On the topic of Hydaelyn and Zodiark once being a single being, though... I've had that as a theory for a while, now, but has it actually been confirmed? When did that happen?

[Fenral]

On the topic of Hydaelyn and Zodiark once being a single being, though... I've had that as a theory for a while, now, but has it actually been confirmed? When did that happen?

Encyclopaedia Eorzea Vol. 1, page 14:

'From within the Mothercrystal, the will of Light--Hydaelyn--cast judgement that Darkness should be physically excised from the planet, and cast the will of Darkness--Zodiark--into space, where it became the moon[...]

'[Which is why the Ascians want to] wake the exiled Zodiark and restore Him to his rightful place back within Hydaelyn.

So, they both were part of an original Mothercrystal, and while we now equate Hydaelyn and Mothercrystal, it's only because she (technically speaking) usurped full control from Zodiark, who was split off into a moon. This entire section is sourced from the Scions themselves, though, so, ahem, "new revelations" could always change this interpretation down the line.

[Iscah]

So, they both were part of an original Mothercrystal, and while we now equate Hydaelyn and Mothercrystal, it's only because she (technically speaking) usurped full control from Zodiark, who was split off into a moon. This entire section is sourced from the Scions themselves, though, so, ahem, "new revelations" could always change this interpretation down the line.

It depends how you interpret that explanation - I was literally just about to post that I'd checked the lorebook and it didn't support them originally being one entity!

More exactly, it seems that they may have physically existed together within the Mothercrystal, but as separate "wills" of Light and Darkness within it. Thus the description referring to Zodiark being "physically excised from the planet", cast out from Hydaelyn-the-planet, not split from being a single entity sharing the mind of Hydaelyn-the-goddess.

It seems that their not being one and the same was the reason for Zodiark being banished in the first place.


(But yes, everything comes with the footnote "as far as we know at the present time".)

[Alleo]

Regardless, whoever is at at fault, it'll be the WoL's job to clean up, also as usual. Because Light is the problem, the WoL will embrace the Dark - and thus will a χ-blade be created, the final piece in my plan to unlock KINGDOM HEARTS and rule ALL THE WORLDS! BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Nooo thats why you put out all of the scions! No power of friendship for the WoL. v_v

(Dear SE after finishing KH3 just now please make a KH3 event..>_>)

Anyway on topic:

I really doubt that we did too much good. First its always told that Light does not mean Good so how would we even know what would count as Light action anyway? Also Hydaelyn has been losing quite for a long time...if our actions (a WoL that does not even have the powerful round crystals of Light) are already causing such an imbalance then I agree with Lineage...the bar for balance is really low and in that way we could never really win because we would always tip the scales too far. I hope that its truly just the black rose that will be doing it.

[Lambdafish]

Lol I thought this was another Eureka weapon complaint thread

[Kallera]

Nooo thats why you put out all of the scions! No power of friendship for the WoL. v_v

(Dear SE after finishing KH3 just now please make a KH3 event..>_>)

Anyway on topic:

I really doubt that we did too much good. First its always told that Light does not mean Good so how would we even know what would count as Light action anyway? Also Hydaelyn has been losing quite for a long time...if our actions (a WoL that does not even have the powerful round crystals of Light) are already causing such an imbalance then I agree with Lineage...the bar for balance is really low and in that way we could never really win because we would always tip the scales too far. I hope that its truly just the black rose that will be doing it.

I gather that the shards and the source are two different situations with regards to the two entities' continued existence. The shards are...to put in a technical, fashion not even supposed to exist, being a byproduct of the sundering of reality brought about by excising Zodiark.


The side effect of reviving zodiark ending all life on the planet is an assumption born of the usage of calamities, which are directed in the destruction of the shard, through rejoining with the source. A flood of light or catastrophic event beyond calamity level on the source could cause the entire thing to fall apart, gods, lifestream, and all, no matter what state the shards are in.

[YianKutku]

Bringing order to Ishgard also caused the death of two Ascians, one being one of the Source's Overlords. That alone is a huge blow to the balance.

Standard reminder that Lahabrea's death was not our fault.

As in, if the Warrior of Light had not intervened in any way, Thordan would presumably still be able to use the Eye of Nidhogg with the power of the Warring Triad to destroy him. Since Thordan was playing Lahabrea all along, it would even be very likely that anything we did to pave the way for Thordan to gain access to Azys Lla (eg defeating Bismarck) would have been helped along by Lahabrea anyway.

At EVERY turn. When have you heard of Garlemald actually winning a battle?

Rabanastre. Hence why it's populated by looters and Lucavi, although we still don't really know how the Lucavi managed to get all the way into Lesalia, where they just sit there doing nothing until we come along. One wonders what their plans would have been if nobody visited; it couldn't be to take revenge against Garlemald, because Garlemald knocked over Rabanastre fairly easily without their even intervening.

[Daralii]

Standard reminder that Lahabrea's death was not our fault.

As in, if the Warrior of Light had not intervened in any way, Thordan would presumably still be able to use the Eye of Nidhogg with the power of the Warring Triad to destroy him. Since Thordan was playing Lahabrea all along, it would even be very likely that anything we did to pave the way for Thordan to gain access to Azys Lla (eg defeating Bismarck) would have been helped along by Lahabrea anyway.

Never said that Lahabrea and what's-her-face's deaths were the WoL's fault, just that it happened in the process of ending the Dragonsong War.

[Fenral]

It depends how you interpret that explanation - I was literally just about to post that I'd checked the lorebook and it didn't support them originally being one entity!

More exactly, it seems that they may have physically existed together within the Mothercrystal, but as separate "wills" of Light and Darkness within it. Thus the description referring to Zodiark being "physically excised from the planet", cast out from Hydaelyn-the-planet, not split from being a single entity sharing the mind of Hydaelyn-the-goddess.

It seems that their not being one and the same was the reason for Zodiark being banished in the first place.

I think that's glossing over the important part, which is that they were once two halves of a whole. Distinct halves, to be sure, but part of a single greater entity, which is the original Mothercrystal. Even though there's currently nothing to suggest that a decisive victory for Hydaelyn that lets Her keep it all for Herself is a bad thing, the current state of things still seems dangerous and unhealthy to me.

I also acknowledge that we don't have a viable alternative at this time (because it would be stupid to go on for as long as we have if there were an obvious solution that we weren't acting on), but I'm still betting on "new revelations" that will point us in another direction.

[Edax]

So I gather that the problem of the Eorzea now is there's too much Light. The Warrior of Light has been too heroic and the world faces destruction from imbalance.

However, the actions of the Warrior of Light have not been able to stop a World War from waging. Brutal repression, slavery, massive loss of life, endless war and attempted genocide from Warriors of Darkness from another world. This is the world with too much Light? Is the moral of the story that war and genocide are good things that bring the world into balance?

I shudder to think what plunging this into darkness would entail. The Warriors of Darkness tried to wipe out an entire world, mass genocide. How can the story follow in their footsteps? How can we darken the world when nearly everyone dying happened in the "world with too much light"? Am I missing something?

So having seen the title "To Shatter The Tyranny of Light" in the new Launch trailer, I have to ask, how is this a world being overwhelmed by Light? The Darkness wins again and again by starting war after endless war with the Empire. And with Hydaelyn weakening, how did we reach the state of "Tyranny of Light"? How is Zodiark losing in this bloodsoaked world?