The 'unwritten rule' for non-tank pulls in dungeons

[Mistyregions]

Healers don't get stressed when you pull large in level +50 content unless:
- They are bad at healing
- You are bad at tanking
- Either of you are new to the dungeon

Pull wall-to-wall is the general rule in dungeons that are high level because everyone has AOEs.

On the other hand, when a DPS takes the aggro of something and gets ripped to shreds, not pulling it off the DPS causes me to have to heal multiple sources when I could be DPSing.


Honestly, if a tank ended up not pulling mobs off of a DPS in late game dungeons, even if the DPS pulled it, I would probably give them a little nudge to take them before vote kicking them.

Do the job of your class, or get shown the door. If the DPS are pulling more mobs, it's because you are pulling very little, and making the dungeon take twice as long so you can watch netflix while tanking.

I mean that's a pretty crap attitude, and if you are asking someone to pull past game design, and only stick to your job description, well healers dont have the letters DPS in them, heal or get kicked and that's all you do.

See how dumb that sounds?

[kazzel120]

The depressing thing is the number of tanks that don't do even that one button.

My personal favorite are the halone heroes that never break off of their first target.

Well its simply not just 1 button though believe me its watching cool downs as well as your single target rotation or aoe rotation because as a drk if you only spam abyssal drain on big pulls your bad because mp doesnt last forever. If your not using cd's and blackest night as a drk and not weaving in dark arts for drain or quietis on wall to wall pulls you suck.

Not going to lie there are bad tanks out there I've seen my share and have tried to coach them but if someone isn't comfortable with big pulls don't force it on them try ease them into it.

At the end of the day every class has bads healers dps and tanks but a bad dps imo is worse then a bad tank or healer because if you can't do damage for shit you slow everyone down.

[Hash_Browns]

The depressing thing is the number of tanks that don't do even that one button.

My personal favorite are the halone heroes that never break off of their first target.

Ah yes, when you pop diversion & still get aggro because the tank is only attacking 1 of 8 enemies while you cast AOEs.

I mean that's a pretty crap attitude, and if you are asking someone to pull past game design, and only stick to your job description, well healers dont have the letters DPS in them, heal or get kicked and that's all you do.

See how dumb that sounds?

Yes, telling someone to do less or you are going to kick them does sound stupid. I do encourage the opposite however. If a healer can't DPS & heal (once again, I feel the need to say - not to people who are new to the role) - kick them.

[Vahlnir]

Ah yes, when you pop diversion & still get aggro because the tank is only attacking 1 of 8 enemies while you cast AOEs.

lol

Been there, done that.

[Nedkel]

I was mainly talking about a tank doing single pulls, would a normal group of three dps and one healer really be that much slower then a single pull tank and 2 dps 1 healer? Granted I rarely ever queue alone so my experience is rather skewed from the norm.

Its late for me and i missed that part about pulling only 1 trash mobs groups, so yea there you are right i agree.

Bad tanks should be kicked if they are slow, yes indeed.
I want to have adventure in nee... em what, no i dont mean that will discourage people to play a tank if they are being kicked and it benefits me since... ops i did it again.
Nevermind, kick bad tanks in the back! if they are in charge and cant do it, then they shouldnt.

[Mistyregions]

I mean, look the hierarchy goes tank, healer, dps that's overall the way the cookie crumbles. Content is "designed" to be pulled one pack at a time. Just because you can do something , doesnt mean it was intended.

My solution, since we apparently all cannot get along and want to be stubborn? Everything level syncs up so it impossible to do wall to wall, or put more walls in.

Then, we can play by the rules set forth. The tank is the tank, we don't need to worry about anyone pre pulling anything and dps get to dps, healers get to heal.

Now we act like grown adults and avoid this by simply saying, hey tank of you want pull wall to wall I got you. If he say cool, cool. If he says no then he doesn't owe anyone an explanation. It may be a team game but the defacto person in charge is the tank. Dont like it? Just like in life you can promote yourself to team leader by doing the job yourself. This isn't a democracy, it's a meritocracy. That means the tank outranks you. Don't like your circumstance? Change it. Dont like tanking? We all have to sacrifice and do things we don't like to get things accomplished our way and we need to stop pushing our expectations on someone else and take responsibility for our actions and future. Be professional, be tactful, be an adult and respect others wishes while engaging with their hobbies.


Or we can change the game to treat us all like irresponsible whiny entitled children. No skin off my back, I don't get riled up when children throw tantrums, because every pond has scum in it.

[Shurrikhan]

I mean, look the hierarchy goes tank, healer, dps that's overall the way the cookie crumbles. Content is "designed" to be pulled one pack at a time. Just because you can do something , doesnt mean it was intended.

Intent has zero relevance to the impact of design. If you made it to be food, but it works better as an explosive such that everyone soon uses it instead as a weapon, sorry, but that's an explosive.

If it can be done, and doing so is a net gain, then design encourages it. Whether that was intended or not has no place in the conversation.

[Misutoraru]

I believe respecting each other is the very basic of MMO group content

If one found the tank pulling too little and believe the tank could handle more,

I am sure simply asking the tank to pull more would be a more appropriate action than just run ahead

It is the tank job to pull and hold aggro, it is also the job for a tank to access the group and tank personal ability if the tank could pull more. "Ask" is not difficult.

[van_arn]

Just like in life you can promote yourself to team leader by doing the job yourself. This isn't a democracy, it's a meritocracy. That means the tank outranks you. Don't like your circumstance? Change it. Dont like tanking? We all have to sacrifice and do things we don't like to get things accomplished our way and we need to stop pushing our expectations on someone else and take responsibility for our actions and future. Be professional, be tactful, be an adult and respect others wishes while engaging with their hobbies.

It actually is a democracy when the party fires the tank with a votekick.

I'm fine with the game adjusting incoming and outgoing damage to be less paste-eating simple, but that's not something Square is going to do. And unless they do, you'll be expected to operate at a pace your party is comfortable with. Even if that pace is uncomfortable to you personally, time to time. Because the healer can forcibly take over the healing AND tanking roles with the numbers as they are.

Ultimately, a tank's self-importance doesn't count for much when the only reason they remain in the party is that party's good pleasure. Tip the scales and the tank is gone just like that.

[Hash_Browns]

It may be a team game but the defacto person in charge is the tank. Dont like it? Just like in life you can promote yourself to team leader by doing the job yourself. This isn't a democracy, it's a meritocracy.

Tank can't lead if they aren't the tank anymore. That's simply how it is.
Majority rules - not the tank. If the tank wants to pull slow, and the rest of the group doesn't, they will just end up getting a new tank. You can't lead the group you aren't in anymore.

Also all roles are expected to DPS, not just the DPS roles.