The 'unwritten rule' for non-tank pulls in dungeons

[SoulEchelon]

As long as they don't mind being rescued into groups of mobs if they start to lag behin-

Yeah you're definitely not a team player, and I'm done with this conversation.

[van_arn]

Yeah you're definitely not a team player, and I'm done with this conversation.

I'm very much a team player, since I can't kick without my team. And my teams understand exactly what I'm doing, why it works, and enjoy the novelty of fighting a tank's ego by styling on them.

That's why it's so easy to kick a tank once they start to balk.

[Hash_Browns]

Yeah you're definitely not a team player, and I'm done with this conversation.

IMO, seems like what you think is that the tank = team leader, which is not the case.

There is no I in tank, or team...

[SoulEchelon]

IMO, seems like what you think is that the tank = team leader, which is not the case.

There is no I in tank, or team...

IMO, seems like you like to assume things. The tank is supposed to lead the dungeon, yes. But it's a group effort. No one is the actual leader. The tank goes first because they're supposed to aggro everything. Stop putting words into my mouth.

Edit: You know what? I take that back. The tank IS the leader. They go in first. They initiate battle first. They dictate the run's flow. But that doesn't make them any more or less important than everyone else. And saying "there's no I in team" makes absolutely zero sense in anything that has been stated by me in this thread. All this time I've been advocating TEAM effort. TEAMwork. At this point you're just cobbling up buzzwords. A team leader works with the team. It is not all on their shoulders.

[Hash_Browns]

IMO, seems like you like to assume things. The tank is supposed to lead the dungeon, yes. But it's a group effort. No one is the actual leader. The tank goes first because they're supposed to aggro everything. Stop putting words into my mouth.

Edit: You know what? I take that back. The tank IS the leader. They go in first. They initiate battle first. They dictate the run's flow. But that doesn't make them any more or less important than everyone else. And saying "there's no I in team" makes absolutely zero sense in anything that has been stated by me in this thread. All this time I've been advocating TEAM effort. TEAMwork. At this point you're just cobbling up buzzwords. A team leader works with the team. It is not all on their shoulders.

Never put words into your mouth, said "it seems like what you think," which you then confirmed in your edit. You're taking this thread too personally. Honestly, you have come off as unnecessarily hostile through out the entire thread, and at points just down right insulting - all over the fact that I think a person who doesn't know the role they queued for should be removed from the party.

This discussion is going to go around in circles because you personally seem to see the tank and the end-all-be-all of the party.
They aren't & if more then 1 person has a problem with how the tank is tanking, then showing them the door is a fine option.

[SoulEchelon]

Never put words into your mouth.....
This discussion is going to go around in circles because you personally seem to see the tank and the end-all-be-all of the party.

And there ya go. You just did it. Again. This is why I'm taking it personally. You're putting words in my mouth and ignoring everything I've stated throughout this whole thread about how everyone is important and teamwork is needed. You're living in your own world, and only seeing words you want to see that pushes your narrative. I am officially done with you.

Also I'm starting to realize I'm being dogpiled by three people who seem to absolutely hate the tank role. Here's the thing: I main DPS. In fact, I main Dragoon. The happiest I am is when I'm with a fast tank that knows what they're doing. But unlike you all, I'm not going to force them into a situation they aren't ready for, and I'm not going to kick them for being unfamiliar with mechanics or being slower than I want them to be. Recently I've been tanking alot more due to the DK tank mounts, and I've found a whole new appreciation for them. I started out scared shitless because I was constantly worried I was doing something wrong. And I had beligerent people like you force me into unfamiliar situations and get mad when I made a mistake because of it. I almost completely quit tanking until a healer gave me a pep talk and helped me through a dungeon I wasn't used to. The DPSes were also happy to help. They gave me the confidence I needed to push past my wariness and become better.

Now I'm one of the much faster tanks. I know my limits, can grab every mob until a stopping point in every endgame dungeon, can stance dance easily during boss battles, and can keep aggro without problem. I know what to look for, know how to keep my team alive, and I don't bash anyone for making a mistake. If someone's having trouble, I HELP THEM. I show them how to do it. I WORK WITH THEM. I don't call them names. I don't force them into bad situations. I don't bitch and moan and kick them for not playing how I want them to play. But I gotta say, if I had any of you in my team, and any of you acted like how you're acting here on these forums, I'd votekick you immediately - healer or not.

I'm out. Just know your mentalities are the main reason why we don't have many tanks in the first place. Bullying them, forcing them to play your way when they're having trouble, ridiculing them and branding them "Bad" because they're slower than your ideals, literally trolling them as they're trying to do their job...Nah. I hope to never see any of you in any of my parties.

[Awha]

Yeah you're definitely not a team player, and I'm done with this conversation.

Maybe I simply do not know the meaning of being a team player but to me being a team player is working with the overall group. Just because someone is new that does not give them a free pass, if the group simply does not want to deal with a new player they are free to try and remove said player. Sure it is a dick move, but no one is obligated to teach or hold anothers hand through content.

I think they are being a team player, expecting certain concessions to be made because they are new to me is not being a team player. While I have not been forcibly kicked as a tank for being new I have been asked by a group if it would be okay if they removed me since they saw I was not very comfortable with larger pulls when I started. I simply left and apologized for holding them back. Willfully holding a group of strangers back either because one does not feel comfortable or lacks the experience since like a messed up thing to do. In my eyes that is.

[SoulEchelon]

Maybe I simply do not know the meaning of being a team player but to me being a team player is working with the overall group. Just because someone is new that does not give them a free pass, if the group simply does not want to deal with a new player they are free to try and remove said player. Sure it is a dick move, but no one is obligated to teach or hold anothers hand through content.

I think they are being a team player, expecting certain concessions to be made because they are new to me is not being a team player. While I have not been forcibly kicked as a tank for being new I have been asked by a group if it would be okay if they removed me since they saw I was not very comfortable with larger pulls when I started. I simply left and apologized for holding them back. Willfully holding a group of strangers back either because one does not feel comfortable or lacks the experience since like a messed up thing to do. In my eyes that is.

Rescuing a struggling team member no matter who they are into a mob of enemies is trolling and not being a team player. End of story.

[Awha]

Rescuing a struggling team member no matter who they are into a mob of enemies is trolling and not being a team player. End of story.

Rescuing a struggling team member can also be seen as a means of encouraging the person that is lagging behind. It is all about how you choose to interpret the action. For you it may be trolling, for me I view it has the healer is telling me they have my back and go ham.

The reality is the tank has kept their gear up to date, and the group knows what their are doing then at that point it is just a matter of trusting your group. Sure people can use rescue to troll, but the action of pulling the player itself is not trolling, intent behind why their were pulled should be considered.

[van_arn]

Rescuing a struggling team member no matter who they are into a mob of enemies is trolling and not being a team player. End of story.

Pfft, it's a great way to bring awareness to the sprint button and the single button tanks need to grab threat once they're in position. Not to mention it can get tanks to ask themselves if the healer isn't afraid of getting aggro, then why is the tank afraid of their shadow?

Now, if you're pulling a black mage into an aoe that's a nasty. But pulling a non-sprinting tank into a multipull when they can clearly handle it isn't, and is one of the best ways to break their tunnelvision and teach them the pulls.