The fun in healer DPS

[Seath]

I play SCH on a controller and pretty much done everything. Controller is fine with SCH.

[Ilyrian]

I play SCH on a controller and pretty much done everything. Controller is fine with SCH.

How do you ground target for aoe's like Shadowflare etc? Genuine question...Having to heal on a controller terrifies and intrigues me in equal measure!

[LariaKirin]

Is this a troll? No effort was put into making those pre shb rotations even remotely accurate. What happened to shadowflare? ED? What happened to miasma 2? What about quickened aetherflow and the AF skill being used more often? What happened to dissipation as an optimisation tool for dps?
Why no mention of weaving?

Also ruin II is only good for double weaving so why no mention of the clipping? Fun gameplay is about having options for both healing uptime and downtime. Fun is about having the opportunity to take risks in order to gain more rewards. Fun is about feeling like your class flows, not like it’s a clunky clipping machine with constant instant gcd casts that you have nothing to weave into. Fun is not spamming one button in a dungeon. Even if the current 7 skills we use are still not enough in your mind there’s no denying it’s better than 1.

What about Miasma II? The only reason you would use it in single target is because it was better than Ruin II.
What about Shadowflare? Just an extra button you would press on cooldown with very few exceptions.

I've already said that ED is the only meaningful thing we lost.

We still have options for both healing uptime and downtime. You can still take risks.
"Fun is not spamming one button in a dungeon". But spamming one button with an occasional other button is? Because that's what we have at the moment.

So I'll reiterate. The fun is in balancing your DPS with healing, not in having several buttons that simply replace Broil in your basic rotation.

[Elgeron]

What about Shadowflare? Just an extra button you would press on cooldown with very few exceptions.

But it was also a mitigating tool, actually more effective than Sacred Soil when dealing with big pulls, as it slowed down the enemy while doing quite a lot of DPS. And what does Miasma II is supossed to be used for AoE damage, it was a DoT which could have been used together with the new skill, considering that Yoshi said he wanted to make AoE more enganging by giving most classes atleast a AoE combo (guess Healer doesn't count).

"Fun is not spamming one button in a dungeon". But spamming one button with an occasional other button is? Because that's what we have at the moment.

Good way of oversimplifying things. Guess we can tell that to tanks and DPS too, perhaps they will enjoy 2 button rotations too.

[Seath]

How do you ground target for aoe's like Shadowflare etc? Genuine question...Having to heal on a controller terrifies and intrigues me in equal measure!

Someone mentioned issues with target target. I generally would not use marcos since it can cause targeting issues. Although having one for excog and E2E can be a QOL thing. For ground targeting there is a setting for controller ground targeting which puts the reticle in the center of the screen and you would just line up the middle point on the screen during your weaver spell. Basically camera aiming vs mouse aiming. You pan the camera on targeting for aoe and pet placement.

[EaMett]

Snip

SCH works fine on controller. You have the option of making a shadowflare macro anyways. Besides it's hardly the only ground aoe skill to weave. All healers have one and plenty of other classes as well.
SCH doesn't have more dot management than WHM. Only two (miasma, bio II). Shadowflare is a cooldown like assize and miasma II dot management only happens when you're looking to weave and don't want to overwrite it. Which is already not that frequent but is also self maintaining since you can check if it's up when you need to weave as opposed to having to keep track of it. In dungeons you just spam it on trash and disregard the dot aspect.

You should be targeting the enemy you're attacking. As an FYI having <t> macros on all dps skills is a dps sink because your skills can't queue (I don't know if it's your case or not but just throwing it out there). You can sprint or swiftcast to dot during the pull.

It's actually a basic game design principle that gameplay options and diversity are generally good and balancing through homogenization is generally bad. In that sense the diversity that sch provided was good game design. Talking about the skill base or skill ceiling levels and moving those around.. Sure. Maybe lowering the skill base a little makes sense but that's hardly what happened here.

The fact that SCH and AST are the best flowing healer classes currently is also just a fact. We're never clipping our GCD, we have plenty of stuff to weave after instant GCD skills so we're never just sitting there and waiting for the GCD to come back. WHM in comparison is clunky. SCH is now roughly the same as WHM in 5.0.

Also pet management took a minimal amount of time. You just place it. If you optimize a lot you manual embrace and manually stop it's casting for timed embrace. The current iteration of the fairy is good because you can just ignore it if you're overwhelmed or you can finely tune it if you're more experienced. DPS was the same. You can just clip your skills, or miasma II spam if you don't get enough out of bane. But if you want to and have more experience you can go all out and weave everything like crazy.

It's ok for a class to have a different skill base and ceiling as long as you have other options in the same role.

[Urthdigger]

This will be a moot point in three weeks.

I'll still have Asylum

[EaMett]

What about Miasma II? The only reason you would use it in single target is because it was better than Ruin II.
What about Shadowflare? Just an extra button you would press on cooldown with very few exceptions.

I've already said that ED is the only meaningful thing we lost.

We still have options for both healing uptime and downtime. You can still take risks.
"Fun is not spamming one button in a dungeon". But spamming one button with an occasional other button is? Because that's what we have at the moment.

So I'll reiterate. The fun is in balancing your DPS with healing, not in having several buttons that simply replace Broil in your basic rotation.

Ok lets be honest here.
We went from a single target dummy 3mn rotation of:

Shadowflare x3, Bio x6, Miasma x8, Miasma II x9, ED x13, Broil III x 50 (miasma II and ED subject to change based on the amount of healing required)
That's 15 opportunities to weave and 16 skills to weave

To this in 5.0:
Bio x6 , Broil x 70
That's 6 opportunities to weave and no skills to weave. If you replace ED with all healing skills (which lets be honest, you wouldn't in current ultimate, so you most likely won't during shb). You'll be clipping because those 6 opportunities won't be enough and Ruin II is only good for double weaving.

I'll say it again, you're oversimplifying.

Dungeons went from:

(Miasma, Bio) during pull, Shadowflare, Bane, Miasma II, ED miasma II, ED, etc.

to:

Bio during pull, AoW, AoW, etc.

This doesn't touch on AF management. We'll probably spam lustrate a bit for gauge which is silly (but you did say ED was a bad loss so that's covered)

If you don't see any difference in the above then I'm really happy for you. You have a lot to look forward to in ShB. I say this without any sarcasm.
I just don't understand how you can objectively expect other people to be as happy as you though. Most of us just want enough back to no longer clip our gcd or wait for the Bio gcd to roll with nothing to weave.

[WaxSw]

The fact that you think that a rotation with 8, 7 of them used in single target situations, skills (Bio2, miasma, miasma 2, ruin2, broil2, energy drain, bane and shadowflare) is the same as a reductionist rotation of 4 offensive skills, 3 single target (ruin2, broil3, biolysis and art of war) says a lot about your quality as Sch.

Maybe some skills like shadowflare are just a press and forget until they come off cooldown but those are OPTIONS that we are losing, those are things to manage that we are losing and even if some are not as vital to the jobs as energy drain could be (which funny enough is going to dissapear too) losing them in a job which spends 80-90% of the time doing that thing is unacceptable.

You said: ""Fun is not spamming one button in a dungeon". But spamming one button with an occasional other button is? Because that's what we have at the moment.". Fun is having options, having things to manage, having tools to expres yourself and your skill with the job you like, with the 5.0 changes we're losing fun.

[LariaKirin]

But it was also a mitigating tool, actually more effective than Sacred Soil when dealing with big pulls, as it slowed down the enemy while doing quite a lot of DPS. And what does Miasma II is supossed to be used for AoE damage, it was a DoT which could have been used together with the new skill, considering that Yoshi said he wanted to make AoE more enganging by giving most classes atleast a AoE combo (guess Healer doesn't count).

Good way of oversimplifying things. Guess we can tell that to tanks and DPS too, perhaps they will enjoy 2 button rotations too.

And how is "Miasma II + Art of War spam" more engaging than "Art of War spam"? You don't make things more engaging by adding buttons. Content itself must be engaging - dungeon content as currently designed will never be engaging, even if you give SCH a 50 different button rotation.

You're also missing my point, which is that the fun in dpsing as a healer is in balancing your healing/dps, not in having multiple buttons to press. I would say the same thing about dps and tanks, if the dps and tanks were healers...