The fun in healer DPS

[LariaKirin]

Is this a troll? No effort was put into making those pre shb rotations even remotely accurate. What happened to shadowflare? ED? What happened to miasma 2? What about quickened aetherflow and the AF skill being used more often? What happened to dissipation as an optimisation tool for dps?
Why no mention of weaving?

Also ruin II is only good for double weaving so why no mention of the clipping? Fun gameplay is about having options for both healing uptime and downtime. Fun is about having the opportunity to take risks in order to gain more rewards. Fun is about feeling like your class flows, not like it’s a clunky clipping machine with constant instant gcd casts that you have nothing to weave into. Fun is not spamming one button in a dungeon. Even if the current 7 skills we use are still not enough in your mind there’s no denying it’s better than 1.

What about Miasma II? The only reason you would use it in single target is because it was better than Ruin II.
What about Shadowflare? Just an extra button you would press on cooldown with very few exceptions.

I've already said that ED is the only meaningful thing we lost.

We still have options for both healing uptime and downtime. You can still take risks.
"Fun is not spamming one button in a dungeon". But spamming one button with an occasional other button is? Because that's what we have at the moment.

So I'll reiterate. The fun is in balancing your DPS with healing, not in having several buttons that simply replace Broil in your basic rotation.

[Elgeron]

What about Shadowflare? Just an extra button you would press on cooldown with very few exceptions.

But it was also a mitigating tool, actually more effective than Sacred Soil when dealing with big pulls, as it slowed down the enemy while doing quite a lot of DPS. And what does Miasma II is supossed to be used for AoE damage, it was a DoT which could have been used together with the new skill, considering that Yoshi said he wanted to make AoE more enganging by giving most classes atleast a AoE combo (guess Healer doesn't count).

"Fun is not spamming one button in a dungeon". But spamming one button with an occasional other button is? Because that's what we have at the moment.

Good way of oversimplifying things. Guess we can tell that to tanks and DPS too, perhaps they will enjoy 2 button rotations too.

[LariaKirin]

But it was also a mitigating tool, actually more effective than Sacred Soil when dealing with big pulls, as it slowed down the enemy while doing quite a lot of DPS. And what does Miasma II is supossed to be used for AoE damage, it was a DoT which could have been used together with the new skill, considering that Yoshi said he wanted to make AoE more enganging by giving most classes atleast a AoE combo (guess Healer doesn't count).

Good way of oversimplifying things. Guess we can tell that to tanks and DPS too, perhaps they will enjoy 2 button rotations too.

And how is "Miasma II + Art of War spam" more engaging than "Art of War spam"? You don't make things more engaging by adding buttons. Content itself must be engaging - dungeon content as currently designed will never be engaging, even if you give SCH a 50 different button rotation.

You're also missing my point, which is that the fun in dpsing as a healer is in balancing your healing/dps, not in having multiple buttons to press. I would say the same thing about dps and tanks, if the dps and tanks were healers...

[EaMett]

You're also missing my point, which is that the fun in dpsing as a healer is balancing your healing/dps, not having multiple buttons to press. I would say the same thing about dps and tanks, if the dps and tanks were healers...

You're absolutely correct in saying that part of the fun is balancing healing and dps. Essentially what we're talking about here is optimizing healing to free up more downtime. Currently that downtime is spent DPSing. As such it wouldn't hurt to add a few more options in our DPS kit. Especially during dungeons. Both multitarget and single target would gain a lot of flow back from simply getting ED and shadowflare back in some form or another. Also fixing the potencies of Ruin II/Broil so that Ruin II becomes a good option for single weave.

[LariaKirin]

You're absolutely correct in saying that part of the fun is balancing healing and dps. Essentially what we're talking about here is optimizing healing to free up more downtime. Currently that downtime is spent DPSing. As such it wouldn't hurt to add a few more options in our DPS kit. Especially during dungeons. Both multitarget and single target would gain a lot of flow back from simply getting ED and shadowflare back in some form or another. Also fixing the potencies of Ruin II/Broil so that Ruin II becomes a good option for single weave.

Yes, ED (or something that functions similarly - in the interest of separating SMN/SCH) is something I would want back.

Shadowflare as-is, I don't care. Now, if Shadowflare lasted, say, 60 seconds on lower potency, forcing a choice between keeping its DPS up or using the very overpowered new Soil, that's a different story.

Miasma, Miasma II, don't care. Bane - garbage.

[EaMett]

What about Miasma II? The only reason you would use it in single target is because it was better than Ruin II.
What about Shadowflare? Just an extra button you would press on cooldown with very few exceptions.

I've already said that ED is the only meaningful thing we lost.

We still have options for both healing uptime and downtime. You can still take risks.
"Fun is not spamming one button in a dungeon". But spamming one button with an occasional other button is? Because that's what we have at the moment.

So I'll reiterate. The fun is in balancing your DPS with healing, not in having several buttons that simply replace Broil in your basic rotation.

Ok lets be honest here.
We went from a single target dummy 3mn rotation of:

Shadowflare x3, Bio x6, Miasma x8, Miasma II x9, ED x13, Broil III x 50 (miasma II and ED subject to change based on the amount of healing required)
That's 15 opportunities to weave and 16 skills to weave

To this in 5.0:
Bio x6 , Broil x 70
That's 6 opportunities to weave and no skills to weave. If you replace ED with all healing skills (which lets be honest, you wouldn't in current ultimate, so you most likely won't during shb). You'll be clipping because those 6 opportunities won't be enough and Ruin II is only good for double weaving.

I'll say it again, you're oversimplifying.

Dungeons went from:

(Miasma, Bio) during pull, Shadowflare, Bane, Miasma II, ED miasma II, ED, etc.

to:

Bio during pull, AoW, AoW, etc.

This doesn't touch on AF management. We'll probably spam lustrate a bit for gauge which is silly (but you did say ED was a bad loss so that's covered)

If you don't see any difference in the above then I'm really happy for you. You have a lot to look forward to in ShB. I say this without any sarcasm.
I just don't understand how you can objectively expect other people to be as happy as you though. Most of us just want enough back to no longer clip our gcd or wait for the Bio gcd to roll with nothing to weave.