The fun in healer DPS

[LariaKirin]

These job changes will not and can not change your playstyle. The only thing that can change playstyle is the content coming up in 5.0.

The only meaningful thing Scholar lost is Energy Drain as an Aetherflow dump and the occasinal decision of saving an Aetherflow for healing abilities.
What will be the next Aetherflow dump? We'll see (I think at the very least some Lustrates will be needed due to Embrace/Aetherpact nerfs).

What makes healer DPS engaging is the act of balancing your Healing and DPS abilities, not the number of different buttons you press.

Scholar single target:
1) Before: 21111111112111111111, occasinally replace a 1 (Broil) with a 3 (Miasma).
2) After: 21111111112111111111
And Ruin II as a weaving tool.

Scholar AoE:
1) Before: Miasma, Bio II, Bane, Miasma II spam
2) After: Art of War spam

If you think that "1" is engaging, but "2" is a snoozefest, I don't know what to tell you.

[Seath]

I personally can't make an opinion until I try the new content in 5.0, but you can try the new SCH today. You can do an expert dungeon and see if you like how it feels by removing the skills that are going away in ShB. It should be relatively close to how that dungeon will feel in the expansion. If you find that the experience is largely the same you should be ok. If not you will have to rely on content and tank changes to make up for anything lost in the experience.

[Seraphor]

I may not be in the majority with my opinion on SCH, but having just recently picked it up after AST and WHM, I feel like it’s AoE rotation is too many things to manage, for the same result that WHM and AST can do in half the time and half the buttons.

My main AST, is just Gravity spam, which I’m perfectly fine with.
WHM is just Aero III and Holy spam, soon to be just Holy spam because of Aero III going.
SCH, requires two dots and Bane just to set up the DoTs… and as damage over time, those 2.5 GCD’s eat into your damage, and with AoEs being used for trash pulls, that’s pretty much half the HP of the enemies anyway, they’re dead before your DoT collection has had a chance to do anything. And your AoE spam ability, is another DoT! So spamming it is actually a DPS loss.
And if like me you DPS via target-of-target macros, because you’re a controller player, then if the tank switches target, your DoTs end up on different targets, and you can’t Bane.

So yeah, I’m not at all bothered by this, will probably make me more likely to play SCH.

[EaMett]

Is this a troll? No effort was put into making those pre shb rotations even remotely accurate. What happened to shadowflare? ED? What happened to miasma 2? What about quickened aetherflow and the AF skill being used more often? What happened to dissipation as an optimisation tool for dps?
Why no mention of weaving?

Also ruin II is only good for double weaving so why no mention of the clipping? Fun gameplay is about having options for both healing uptime and downtime. Fun is about having the opportunity to take risks in order to gain more rewards. Fun is about feeling like your class flows, not like it’s a clunky clipping machine with constant instant gcd casts that you have nothing to weave into. Fun is not spamming one button in a dungeon. Even if the current 7 skills we use are still not enough in your mind there’s no denying it’s better than 1.

[EaMett]

I may not be in the majority with my opinion on SCH, but having just recently picked it up after AST and WHM, I feel like it’s AoE rotation is too many things to manage, for the same result that WHM and AST can do in half the time and half the buttons.

My main AST, is just Gravity spam, which I’m perfectly fine with.
WHM is just Aero III and Holy spam, soon to be just Holy spam because of Aero III going.
SCH, requires two dots and Bane just to set up the DoTs… and as damage over time, those 2.5 GCD’s eat into your damage, and with AoEs being used for trash pulls, that’s pretty much half the HP of the enemies anyway, they’re dead before your DoT collection has had a chance to do anything. And your AoE spam ability, is another DoT! So spamming it is actually a DPS loss.
And if like me you DPS via target-of-target macros, because you’re a controller player, then if the tank switches target, your DoTs end up on different targets, and you can’t Bane.

So yeah, I’m not at all bothered by this, will probably make me more likely to play SCH.

You miasma and bio during the pull then weave shadowflare and bane in as the tank settles. Then spam miasma II and weave ED in for the mana. Also weave lucid and af for the mana. You’ll be doing as much of not more as you would on whm (depends on how strong the party dps is)
Yes it’s more involved but that’s what makes the design great. If it’s too much you have two other healer to fall back on. But if you get bored of your ast or whm you also have a bit of a harder class to play in sch. Diversity is fun and gives you something more to work towards when you e already spent countless hours on the other healers.

[Urthdigger]

My issue is less the changes themselves (I play WHM, the one least affected) and more the reason WHY that was given. I'm worried that they'll make further adjustments to remove DPS tools to try and "make me heal more" without knowing WHY I do so.

You're right that the number of buttons isn't necessarily what makes something fun, but maybe someone should tell SE that. Giving me healing tools won't make me heal more, I'll heal as the party requires it and beyond that there's no point.

I feel that we'll still continue to DPS with our limited kit and SE will look at that and think "...clearly we didn't do enough. Ok, now you have only one DPS spell but look, five more flavors of Cure II!"

[Seraphor]

You miasma and bio during the pull then weave shadowflare and bane in as the tank settles. Then spam miasma II and weave ED in for the mana. Also weave lucid and af for the mana.

During the pull? You mean while running? Bio...?
And again, the Tank changes target, and messes up my Bane.
Weave a ground targeting ability?

Are you telling me SCH is a M&K only job?

Yes it’s more involved but that’s what makes the design great.

This isn't a very convincing argument.
Complex doesn't mean it's good design.
SCH has always seemed like a mess to me.

Diversity is fun and gives you something more to work towards when you e already spent countless hours on the other healers.

Precisely why I'd like to be able to play SCH instead of feeling locked out of it due to playing on controller and it's messy DoT management.

You already have the pet to manage, which is one distraction, a messy DoT system on top of that is too much. Seems to me SCH has as much of an identity issue as the other healers. AST can’t decide if its Regen or Shields, WHM doesn’t have anything unique, SCH is trying to do too many things at once.
Perhaps if SCH focused more on its pet instead of tripping over DoTs, it would work a lot better.
Unfortunately both systems are being simplified, so I don’t feel SE have quite got it right still.

[Elgeron]

Sure, that is why PLD make a big deal of being a 1-2-3 combo class in ARR, why DRK complain about "Dark Spam" and single combo, while part of the AST player base lament what they perceive as a dumbing down of the card system. Many of us don't find that very enganging. Hate to play AST before unlocking the card system, as the dps rotation is crap. Now SCH doesn't even have something like cards, and the fairy system seems more simple than ever.

Also, really? Another topic? Couldn't make your point in one of the other ten topics about Healers at the moment both in the healer section and General section.

[Urthdigger]

During the pull? You mean while running? Bio...?
And again, the Tank changes target, and messes up my Bane.
Weave a ground targeting ability?

Are you telling me SCH is a M&K only job?

I weave ground target stuff just fine. Make a <t> macro for it or get better at using your camera to position it.

[Seraphor]

I weave ground target stuff just fine. Make a <t> macro for it or get better at using your camera to position it.

This will be a moot point in three weeks.