The Healer Double Standard

[xxvaynxx]

AST didn't lose any dots. WHM lost one dot. SCH lost too much.

AST is mad because cards are being dumbed down to the point where it feels like their identity is being taken away. (If you actually paid attention in the AST quest line, it talks about what the cards reference and why they do what they do, someone made a great post about it somewhere in the dumpster fire that is healer forums over the past week. I will not be going to find it.)

WHM is mad because we got 1 dot taken away so we now have the boring AST rotation but without anything else for us to do. And we still don't have any raid utility at all. And all of our over the top healing (of which we got more) isn't needed and still won't be needed.

SCH is mad because they lost too much (way more than one dot), and while they got a new shiny fairy, it does not fix losing too much.


To whoever it was trying to talk about how we're gaining 10% potency...
And of course healers have bigger potency spells so it's probable that at least AST and WHM will do more dmg than we currently do, but the HP for all the mobs will also go up quite a bit if Shadowbringers is like previous expansions. My undergeared WHM couldn't really kill anything in HW launch (even though I could kill 50s in ARR areas ok). My well geared WHM took much too long to kill things in Fringes and Peaks (even though I had no problems with 60s in the HW areas). I expect this to be much the same in Shadowbringers, and I for one would have loved to be able to keep any extra damage spells to be able to help kill things faster. (And that's why I'll be going DPS this expansion.)

But most astro's just fish for balance anyway though.

Every other card is kinda useless and not really needed. Astro was basically redraw and royal road until you get balance, don't try to deny that.
All the other cards were just fluff, bole is not helpful, spear is w/e, arrow nobody likes that but samurai and blm but they rather have balance, nobody likes spire, ewer is ok but again, not really needed and from what I seen all the statics I been in with an astro, they almost never use that, its very situational because they only use it if the other healer died.

I get the other cards were still fun to play around with but nobody really cares about the other cards but people that just want variety for the sake of variety. Your I identity is still there, you use cards to buff people and get seals to use a powerful heal or something.
I get your upset and other people as well but people here need to stop acting like the other cards besides balance was useful.

[WaxSw]

Maybe Because I'm not a healer but like... All you had was just two dots and one spamable attack. Sch had like 4 I think? I don't really see the big deal, all you lost was one extra dot.
You still going to be spamming one skill.
Sch had energy drain but like that's not much.

As main scholar I can tell you that only loosing energy drain is a BIG loss, that attack helped the MP management (Sch has the most expensive spells), it helped to burn aetherflow stacks and allowed us gain fairy gauge without need to overheal being also the only reason why people ever used dissipation, loosing it is a big deal, also reduce those dots from 4 (miasma bio shadowflare and miasma 2) to 1 (biolysis) its removing part of Sch's micro management which made the job fun, we also lost a lot of aoe dps tools with bane besides right now scholar is not just spam broil and forget, We use broil a lot, is our filler spell, but while doing it we are managing our dots, seeing if we can use aetherflow offensively or if we have to save it for heals (Risk/reward mechanic) and keeping some sort of rotation. Shb Sch? Yeah thats one spammy boi, Sb Sch? Had a lot of more things than only spam the nuke.

[Saefinn]

100% agree OP.

At this point, I honestly dont' believe SE has an idea how to properly do anything but DPS roles. That is why tanks are officially blue DPS now...

What I would do is, scrap the whole concept of the healer role and replace it with the support role. The support role could be anything from a melee, to physical ranged or caster and would be a DPS/heal hybrid. DNC would perfectly fit that role already (with a few tweaks).

This has two big pros:
1. You can give the support role a full DPS rotation,which either buffs the group or debuffs enemies and give them 2-3 heals.
2. You can make tanks have an identity besides "blue DPS"!
Make them be responsible for their own survivability, f.e. by giving them active mitigation they have to keep track of while tanking and give them the tools to keep themselves alive.
The group dmgreduce CD also already fits into that concept.

This is what they could do:
SCH
Debuffs enemies.
Gives out heals/small shields through the fairy (on a CD).

AST
The SCH/WHM hybrid.
Rework the card system to either hand out buffs or debuff enemies (diurnal/nocturnal).
Make each card unique again!
Draws could be achieved by completing their DPS rotation.

WHM
Buffs the group with white magic.

This is in line with how I envisage healers too. Scholar had debuffs in 2.0 and I used to work them in. And nerf SCH’s healing, let mitigation be more at the forefront. Party buffs would work with the WHM identity and they should keep them healiest . I don’t play enough AST to know what it needs, but versatility does sound like its thing. It can do more and adapt. I think maybe in the healing respect it can mix shields and heals more, but not be as effective as either, but it’d have more heal power than a SCH or more shield power than a WHM. So the advantage is mixing the two, rather than specialising. Which I think works with the original design of AST, but something to build on it.

[Deceptus]

I'm just curious do you find it enjoyable to go around and troll people? Earlier in this thread and also in other threads you have quoted me out of context.

I don't think that I've quoted you out of context. You claim something is a fact and I'm asking you to prove it. Otherwise, don't use such absolutes. I'm just responding to what you've written.

It seems that you want to argue about nothing and everything. I'm curious what I have done to deserve such attention from you?

And I will continue to argue about anything and everything. It's my nature. I love to have good discussions. You respond, I respond to you. That's how a conversation works. Do you think you're the only one allowed to post on the healer forum?

Are you in these forms to contribute in a positive manner because in my humble opinion it doesn't appear that you are. If you are just here to argue and try to create drama and problems then please in the future leave me out of your drama sessions. Thank You

I don't have to "contribute in a positive manner" if I don't want to. Please realize that when you post in a public forum, there's a good chance someone will disagree with you right? From what I'm seeing you don't have a lot of support for the positions you're taking.

Finally, just a piece of advice when you make comments like this (emphasis mine):

I'm not assuming anything I'm going to wait till the game comes out and see how it plays out. And I will continue to say what I have been saying I wish people would stop all the complaining until they've actually tried a new content and then if they don't like it complain away. And you are right I am assuming that is why the devs are doing it. I am assuming it's because in the last couple of months according to Square Enix they have had a record number of harassment complaints in dungeons specifically between tanks and healers so many that the gamemaster's cannot keep up with the complaints.

Logical people are going to call you out on it.

[Crushnight]

I'm not assuming anything I'm going to wait till the game comes out and see how it plays out. And I will continue to say what I have been saying I wish people would stop all the complaining until they've actually tried a new content and then if they don't like it complain away. And you are right I am assuming that is why the devs are doing it. I am assuming it's because in the last couple of months according to Square Enix they have had a record number of harassment complaints in dungeons specifically between tanks and healers so many that the gamemaster's cannot keep up with the complaints. Mysource the Square Enix directly. I did not record the conversation. I didn't have a tape recorder with me at the time sorry. And you speak of proof I've seen no proof in any of your threads just a lot of talk so isn't that kind of hypocritical?

You really really need to look at from a 1-80 rather than a 70-80 because these changes change for all content not just ShB, ShB on launch will be about 15% of content maybe (i was feeling generous) so that would be around 85% of content where these changes are not needed at all and that is my biggest issue with these changes. Like why give us so many options for where the majority of content it is unnecessary AND take away a lot that used to keep healers preoccupied if they wanted to.

The devs seem to have only looked forward (70-80) rather than looking at everything, 1-70 is not going to be that engaging as i very highly doubt the devs will adjust ARR-SB content to accommodate these changes.

[loreleidiangelo]

By the way, for those saying the new DPS spells look to be a potency gain, did everyone forget that there was a slide that said that potencies work differently now and not to judge too much based off the initial values? There is still a possibility that despite the potencies healer DPS was just straight-up nerfed lol, on top of becoming very boring to boot (it was never super exciting though, let's be real here, unless you were a min-maxing SCH).

[Misutoraru]

But most astro's just fish for balance anyway though.

And rather than incorporate content design that make other card great again.
We could be the buff and debuff heal and not a clone of SCH or WHM
dev take the dps obsession path and dumb down everything.

[Sebazy]

If you would like a more prime example the tank barely had 360 item level. We are running expert dungeons. The tank pulled mobs all the way to the boss did not use a single cool down. But it's okay go ahead and call me names tell me I'm a bad healer.

Hiya.

Here's a log from a 60 roulette where the tank actually had considerably less HP than I did.. The log has me as having a bit over 17k HP, he had less than 14k total. It's worth nothing that he did use his cooldowns though.

I cast 49 GCD heals with further 12 oGCDs out of 428 casts across a ~19 minute dungeon.

That results in a heal roughly every 20 seconds, and a 7 to 1 ratio for dps/utility to healing.

Note how close that is to the example I provided in your other thread? It's because irrespective of how little gear your tank has, the incoming damage is pretty similar all told. Cooldowns have a far bigger effect than gear here. The difference is that I simply had to weave in more Adlos to keep the tank safe through bursts of damage. It certainly didn't stop me from DPSing though, and it shouldn't have prevented you either.

You literally only have yourself and your potential lack of awareness to blame if you let these situations get the better of you.

Also note how we didn't get salty and kick the tank at the first opportunity, it was hard work but I relished the added challenge.

[loreleidiangelo]

Also note how we didn't get salty and kick the tank at the first opportunity, it was hard work but I relished the added challenge.

Apropos of nothing but I actually like when encounters are a bit of a challenge due to new or undergeared people. It reminds me of how engaging healing in this game could be if only things were tuned a bit more properly and damage was less feast or famine.

[Deceptus]

Apropos of nothing but I actually like when encounters are a bit of a challenge due to new or undergeared people. It reminds me of how engaging healing in this game could be if only things were tuned a bit more properly and damage was less feast or famine.

Old school Aurum Vale, The Vault, Bardam's Mettle show how healing in this game can be. Those particular dungeons, especially Vault and BM are in that sweet spot where people are generally undergeared for the instance because many are running it for the first time and enemies have more HP and hit harder.

Due to that, healers have to heal more. They have to mitigate more. Tanks do as well, and DPS need to step it up because of the pulls take too long, the healers run out of MP.

They really are great examples of what healing can be.