The Healer Double Standard

[xxvaynxx]

Maybe Because I'm not a healer but like... All you had was just two dots and one spamable attack. Sch had like 4 I think? I don't really see the big deal, all you lost was one extra dot.
You still going to be spamming one skill.
Sch had energy drain but like that's not much.

[MizArai]

Maybe Because I'm not a healer but like... All you had was just two dots and one spamable attack. Sch had like 4 I think? I don't really see the big deal, all you lost was one extra dot.
You still going to be spamming one skill.
Sch had energy drain but like that's not much.

AST didn't lose any dots. WHM lost one dot. SCH lost too much.

AST is mad because cards are being dumbed down to the point where it feels like their identity is being taken away. (If you actually paid attention in the AST quest line, it talks about what the cards reference and why they do what they do, someone made a great post about it somewhere in the dumpster fire that is healer forums over the past week. I will not be going to find it.)

WHM is mad because we got 1 dot taken away so we now have the boring AST rotation but without anything else for us to do. And we still don't have any raid utility at all. And all of our over the top healing (of which we got more) isn't needed and still won't be needed.

SCH is mad because they lost too much (way more than one dot), and while they got a new shiny fairy, it does not fix losing too much.


To whoever it was trying to talk about how we're gaining 10% potency...
And of course healers have bigger potency spells so it's probable that at least AST and WHM will do more dmg than we currently do, but the HP for all the mobs will also go up quite a bit if Shadowbringers is like previous expansions. My undergeared WHM couldn't really kill anything in HW launch (even though I could kill 50s in ARR areas ok). My well geared WHM took much too long to kill things in Fringes and Peaks (even though I had no problems with 60s in the HW areas). I expect this to be much the same in Shadowbringers, and I for one would have loved to be able to keep any extra damage spells to be able to help kill things faster. (And that's why I'll be going DPS this expansion.)

[Nujana]

100% agree OP.

At this point, I honestly dont' believe SE has an idea how to properly do anything but DPS roles. That is why tanks are officially blue DPS now...

What I would do is, scrap the whole concept of the healer role and replace it with the support role. The support role could be anything from a melee, to physical ranged or caster and would be a DPS/heal hybrid. DNC would perfectly fit that role already (with a few tweaks).

This has two big pros:
1. You can give the support role a full DPS rotation,which either buffs the group or debuffs enemies and give them 2-3 heals.
2. You can make tanks have an identity besides "blue DPS"!
Make them be responsible for their own survivability, f.e. by giving them active mitigation they have to keep track of while tanking and give them the tools to keep themselves alive.
The group dmgreduce CD also already fits into that concept.

This is what they could do:
SCH
Debuffs enemies.
Gives out heals/small shields through the fairy (on a CD).

AST
The SCH/WHM hybrid.
Rework the card system to either hand out buffs or debuff enemies (diurnal/nocturnal).
Make each card unique again!
Draws could be achieved by completing their DPS rotation.

WHM
Buffs the group with white magic.

[Saefinn]

100% agree OP.

At this point, I honestly dont' believe SE has an idea how to properly do anything but DPS roles. That is why tanks are officially blue DPS now...

What I would do is, scrap the whole concept of the healer role and replace it with the support role. The support role could be anything from a melee, to physical ranged or caster and would be a DPS/heal hybrid. DNC would perfectly fit that role already (with a few tweaks).

This has two big pros:
1. You can give the support role a full DPS rotation,which either buffs the group or debuffs enemies and give them 2-3 heals.
2. You can make tanks have an identity besides "blue DPS"!
Make them be responsible for their own survivability, f.e. by giving them active mitigation they have to keep track of while tanking and give them the tools to keep themselves alive.
The group dmgreduce CD also already fits into that concept.

This is what they could do:
SCH
Debuffs enemies.
Gives out heals/small shields through the fairy (on a CD).

AST
The SCH/WHM hybrid.
Rework the card system to either hand out buffs or debuff enemies (diurnal/nocturnal).
Make each card unique again!
Draws could be achieved by completing their DPS rotation.

WHM
Buffs the group with white magic.

This is in line with how I envisage healers too. Scholar had debuffs in 2.0 and I used to work them in. And nerf SCH’s healing, let mitigation be more at the forefront. Party buffs would work with the WHM identity and they should keep them healiest . I don’t play enough AST to know what it needs, but versatility does sound like its thing. It can do more and adapt. I think maybe in the healing respect it can mix shields and heals more, but not be as effective as either, but it’d have more heal power than a SCH or more shield power than a WHM. So the advantage is mixing the two, rather than specialising. Which I think works with the original design of AST, but something to build on it.

[xxvaynxx]

AST didn't lose any dots. WHM lost one dot. SCH lost too much.

AST is mad because cards are being dumbed down to the point where it feels like their identity is being taken away. (If you actually paid attention in the AST quest line, it talks about what the cards reference and why they do what they do, someone made a great post about it somewhere in the dumpster fire that is healer forums over the past week. I will not be going to find it.)

WHM is mad because we got 1 dot taken away so we now have the boring AST rotation but without anything else for us to do. And we still don't have any raid utility at all. And all of our over the top healing (of which we got more) isn't needed and still won't be needed.

SCH is mad because they lost too much (way more than one dot), and while they got a new shiny fairy, it does not fix losing too much.


To whoever it was trying to talk about how we're gaining 10% potency...
And of course healers have bigger potency spells so it's probable that at least AST and WHM will do more dmg than we currently do, but the HP for all the mobs will also go up quite a bit if Shadowbringers is like previous expansions. My undergeared WHM couldn't really kill anything in HW launch (even though I could kill 50s in ARR areas ok). My well geared WHM took much too long to kill things in Fringes and Peaks (even though I had no problems with 60s in the HW areas). I expect this to be much the same in Shadowbringers, and I for one would have loved to be able to keep any extra damage spells to be able to help kill things faster. (And that's why I'll be going DPS this expansion.)

But most astro's just fish for balance anyway though.

Every other card is kinda useless and not really needed. Astro was basically redraw and royal road until you get balance, don't try to deny that.
All the other cards were just fluff, bole is not helpful, spear is w/e, arrow nobody likes that but samurai and blm but they rather have balance, nobody likes spire, ewer is ok but again, not really needed and from what I seen all the statics I been in with an astro, they almost never use that, its very situational because they only use it if the other healer died.

I get the other cards were still fun to play around with but nobody really cares about the other cards but people that just want variety for the sake of variety. Your I identity is still there, you use cards to buff people and get seals to use a powerful heal or something.
I get your upset and other people as well but people here need to stop acting like the other cards besides balance was useful.

[WaxSw]

Maybe Because I'm not a healer but like... All you had was just two dots and one spamable attack. Sch had like 4 I think? I don't really see the big deal, all you lost was one extra dot.
You still going to be spamming one skill.
Sch had energy drain but like that's not much.

As main scholar I can tell you that only loosing energy drain is a BIG loss, that attack helped the MP management (Sch has the most expensive spells), it helped to burn aetherflow stacks and allowed us gain fairy gauge without need to overheal being also the only reason why people ever used dissipation, loosing it is a big deal, also reduce those dots from 4 (miasma bio shadowflare and miasma 2) to 1 (biolysis) its removing part of Sch's micro management which made the job fun, we also lost a lot of aoe dps tools with bane besides right now scholar is not just spam broil and forget, We use broil a lot, is our filler spell, but while doing it we are managing our dots, seeing if we can use aetherflow offensively or if we have to save it for heals (Risk/reward mechanic) and keeping some sort of rotation. Shb Sch? Yeah thats one spammy boi, Sb Sch? Had a lot of more things than only spam the nuke.