Why was Living Dead not removed?

[Bhearil]

Problem with LD is the resources and atention it requires. With Holmgang you only need to burn some minor instant cds and everything is fine even if the War is not at full hp since theres no tankbusters back to back. Meanwhile with LD either you have a whm saving Benediction, or healers have to stop what they doing and spam heal the DRK since you cant rely on critical heals to bring its hp to full, burning even more instants, or being forced to cast normal heals

[Dalmacus]

I think the whole point of invulnerability is to at least help to take off some burden from the healers like hallowed ground and holmgang did well. Living dead however adds extra burden to healers because if you don't heal enough past the damage the DRK received the DRK dies.

[Liam_Harper]

I absolutely hate Living Dead. When in PUGs the healers never heal you to full and I die then get blamed for the death every single time I use it. Was really crossing my fingers it had been retooled.

To be fair, that means you died (for Living Dead to proc in the first place), so the issue there is pug healers letting you die to begin with. It at least gives you a 10 sec "chance" at a comeback, so it's better than nothing at all.

However, that's not saying much. I agree it's the worst tank invulnerability by far. Perhaps something like this could work:

Living Dead
Ability - Instant
300 sec

Grants the effect of Living Dead. When HP is reduced to 0 while under the effect of Living Dead, instead of becoming KO'd, your status will change to Walking Dead. Living Dead Duration: 10s
While under the effect of Walking Dead, you cannot die to most damage. Any damage that you take will create a healing absorption shield equal to that damage. If any heal absorption remains when the Walking Dead timer expires, you will die. Walking Dead Duration: 10s

Seeing a tank at 0 health and not going up is going to attract pug healer attention far more than a tank at 50% with a debuff they don't even notice.

[garret_hawke]

Just make a macro for when you use it that alerts in the text box. You can even make it make a noise...

I do and more times than not 1 of the following happens 1. healers panic and stats healing like a mad man/woman before WD proc therefore it does not, 2. Healers just ignore it/don't react

[Renato]

It's a horrible skill that requires advanced communication with everyone else to gain it's full potential. Holmgang and Hallowground doesn't require the extra work and doesn't have a stupid requirement for them to activate and be useful.

Omg, I have to socialize in an MMO...Oh no.

The skill is fine. If anything, just make a macro with a message like, "I'm using Living Dead. Please Heal" and use Convalescence. It's really not that bad especially since most healers can easily heal tanks to full HP pretty quickly.

If anything, the problem I have with the skill comes from the fact that DRKs don't have many self-heals that help with this.

[whiskeybravo]

Omg, I have to socialize in an MMO...Oh no.

The skill is fine. If anything, just make a macro with a message like, "I'm using Living Dead. Please Heal." It's really not that bad especially since most healers can easily heal tanks to full HP pretty quickly.

It's not that bad, it's only the worst tank invuln skill they've created.

The skill itself is a neat concept, it's definitely more complex than most. It's just unnecessarily punishing when no other tank invuln is.

Reduce CD to 3 min or drop the healing requirement significantly.

DRK is already hurting in the mitigation dept.

[kidalutz]

I absolutely hate Living Dead. When in PUGs the healers never heal you to full and I die then get blamed for the death every single time I use it. Was really crossing my fingers it had been retooled.

You've used it!?! :O

I kid I've popped it a few times myself usually when I notice the healers are too busy playing Damage pong to heal me despite the fact that I'm tanking the thing that can one shot them.Figure if I'm gonna die anyways I'm going out on my terms. Sometimes the healers notice that thier tank has no health and have that heal seizure where both start healing like thier having a heart attack.*

[DemonicNeko]

Problem with LD is the resources and atention it requires. With Holmgang you only need to burn some minor instant cds and everything is fine even if the War is not at full hp since theres no tankbusters back to back. Meanwhile with LD either you have a whm saving Benediction, or healers have to stop what they doing and spam heal the DRK since you cant rely on critical heals to bring its hp to full, burning even more instants, or being forced to cast normal heals

I think the whole point of invulnerability is to at least help to take off some burden from the healers like hallowed ground and holmgang did well. Living dead however adds extra burden to healers because if you don't heal enough past the damage the DRK received the DRK dies.

I do not know why people say LD is fine. Bhearil and Dalmacus is pointing out it flaws. We are entering an expansion where we will be wiping at .01%. Which normally happens when healers are oom. LD only waste MP and not saves it like the Warrior/Paladin invulnerability. It puts a lot of stress on the raid when the dark knight is telling everyone on mic. I am in Walking Dead phase. Not only do they need to rush expensive MP heals and pop powerful CD. If they fail to keep you alive. They have to pop more powerful CD and waste more mp. Rezzing you and bring you up to full hp.

I understand they do not want to slap hallowed ground or holmgang on a DRK. Yet they have so many different options to give a dark knight an invulnerability that fit the dark knight lore.

[WhyAmIHere]

Last night was a great example of why LD needs to not kill you, at least for me.

With my UCoB group, we're just now finally able to say we're seeing/progging Bahamut. Getting to this point though, we've had me use LD to deal with the initial dive bomb and tankbuster Nael does on me when she appears. Plenty of times a healer died to prog memes, and I had LD used with only one healer up. Plenty of times the healer has made it work, but a few pulls have happened where I died to walking dead, because i was healed for 90% of my HP, not 100%.

There is *no* other ability that states *if conditions for this skill aren't met, you die.*

All tanks losing Conva hurts DRK the most in this case with LD having a strict healing requirement. WAR has a loose healing requirement, as does GNB in that for the duration of superbolide it takes no damage, therefore dropping to 1 HP is not as demanding a burden on healers.

Add into that just how lacking DRK is for self-healing, even with the buff to SE, it's still the only game that 1) removes all player agency away from the player, 2) has a fail state leading to death (mechanics are not the same as a skill a player uses, so please don't compare a failed mechanics check to a failed ability check), and 3) unless DRK gets something in a later update to ease the healing burden its invuln does (WAR as mentioned earlier, PLD with clemency (which has it's own drawbacks), and GNB with it's regens and shields), would still make it the most unforgiving invuln skill to use.

[Bhearil]

The main difference between Homgang and Living Dead healing wise is that one on requires "heal enough hp so WAR doesnt die from next auto and/or skill, you can heal the remaining at ease", while DRK is "heal 100% of the DRK hp no matter what and we need it full NOW"

DRK puts a much stronger strain on healers unless you have a pocket Benediction (and that Benediction could be used on other situations as well is not like a WHM never uses Bene when the tank is not a DRK)