Why was Living Dead not removed?

[DemonicNeko]

Problem with LD is the resources and atention it requires. With Holmgang you only need to burn some minor instant cds and everything is fine even if the War is not at full hp since theres no tankbusters back to back. Meanwhile with LD either you have a whm saving Benediction, or healers have to stop what they doing and spam heal the DRK since you cant rely on critical heals to bring its hp to full, burning even more instants, or being forced to cast normal heals

I think the whole point of invulnerability is to at least help to take off some burden from the healers like hallowed ground and holmgang did well. Living dead however adds extra burden to healers because if you don't heal enough past the damage the DRK received the DRK dies.

I do not know why people say LD is fine. Bhearil and Dalmacus is pointing out it flaws. We are entering an expansion where we will be wiping at .01%. Which normally happens when healers are oom. LD only waste MP and not saves it like the Warrior/Paladin invulnerability. It puts a lot of stress on the raid when the dark knight is telling everyone on mic. I am in Walking Dead phase. Not only do they need to rush expensive MP heals and pop powerful CD. If they fail to keep you alive. They have to pop more powerful CD and waste more mp. Rezzing you and bring you up to full hp.

I understand they do not want to slap hallowed ground or holmgang on a DRK. Yet they have so many different options to give a dark knight an invulnerability that fit the dark knight lore.

[Lyth]

I do not know why people say LD is fine.

The majority of people who claim that "LD is fine" are people on other jobs (mostly WAR) who don't have any regular interaction with the ability. These are the same sort of people who will turn around and complain about Onslaught not being broken enough with the same breath. But with DRK, it suddenly becomes "you've been dealing with it for four years, why change it now?"

Buffs to Holmgang aside, though, there's another reason why this needs to be looked at. Convalescence is gone (it's now packaged in as a WAR exclusive). HP totals are going to go up yet again. Nobody is going to want to heal through this nonsense.

[Hierro]

The majority of people who claim that "LD is fine" are people on other jobs (mostly WAR) who don't have any regular interaction with the ability. These are the same sort of people who will turn around and complain about Onslaught not being broken enough with the same breath. But with DRK, it suddenly becomes "you've been dealing with it for four years, why change it now?"

Buffs to Holmgang aside, though, there's another reason why this needs to be looked at. Convalescence is gone (it's now packaged in as a WAR exclusive). HP totals are going to go up yet again. Nobody is going to want to heal through this nonsense.

And what would you say to the player who mains both jobs and plays with each skills on a regular basis in relevant content? Would you still try to passively-aggressively invalidate their opinion then?

[Liam_Harper]

I absolutely hate Living Dead. When in PUGs the healers never heal you to full and I die then get blamed for the death every single time I use it. Was really crossing my fingers it had been retooled.

To be fair, that means you died (for Living Dead to proc in the first place), so the issue there is pug healers letting you die to begin with. It at least gives you a 10 sec "chance" at a comeback, so it's better than nothing at all.

However, that's not saying much. I agree it's the worst tank invulnerability by far. Perhaps something like this could work:

Living Dead
Ability - Instant
300 sec

Grants the effect of Living Dead. When HP is reduced to 0 while under the effect of Living Dead, instead of becoming KO'd, your status will change to Walking Dead. Living Dead Duration: 10s
While under the effect of Walking Dead, you cannot die to most damage. Any damage that you take will create a healing absorption shield equal to that damage. If any heal absorption remains when the Walking Dead timer expires, you will die. Walking Dead Duration: 10s

Seeing a tank at 0 health and not going up is going to attract pug healer attention far more than a tank at 50% with a debuff they don't even notice.

[WhyAmIHere]

Last night was a great example of why LD needs to not kill you, at least for me.

With my UCoB group, we're just now finally able to say we're seeing/progging Bahamut. Getting to this point though, we've had me use LD to deal with the initial dive bomb and tankbuster Nael does on me when she appears. Plenty of times a healer died to prog memes, and I had LD used with only one healer up. Plenty of times the healer has made it work, but a few pulls have happened where I died to walking dead, because i was healed for 90% of my HP, not 100%.

There is *no* other ability that states *if conditions for this skill aren't met, you die.*

All tanks losing Conva hurts DRK the most in this case with LD having a strict healing requirement. WAR has a loose healing requirement, as does GNB in that for the duration of superbolide it takes no damage, therefore dropping to 1 HP is not as demanding a burden on healers.

Add into that just how lacking DRK is for self-healing, even with the buff to SE, it's still the only game that 1) removes all player agency away from the player, 2) has a fail state leading to death (mechanics are not the same as a skill a player uses, so please don't compare a failed mechanics check to a failed ability check), and 3) unless DRK gets something in a later update to ease the healing burden its invuln does (WAR as mentioned earlier, PLD with clemency (which has it's own drawbacks), and GNB with it's regens and shields), would still make it the most unforgiving invuln skill to use.

[Bhearil]

The main difference between Homgang and Living Dead healing wise is that one on requires "heal enough hp so WAR doesnt die from next auto and/or skill, you can heal the remaining at ease", while DRK is "heal 100% of the DRK hp no matter what and we need it full NOW"

DRK puts a much stronger strain on healers unless you have a pocket Benediction (and that Benediction could be used on other situations as well is not like a WHM never uses Bene when the tank is not a DRK)

[Luto_Locke]

I personally never use Living Dead.. though it was because I was new to tanking and was too cowardly to rely on being topped off to avoid death. After looking at the other tank emergency skills... I'm sadly disappointed in the Living Dead and it's requirements of being fully healed or dying. They could just rework it to be more similar to Gun Breakers ability, dropping to 1 HP upon gaining invuln, but even that seams a little extreme but not near as bad as Living Dead.

[Derio]

I try to not use living dead at all.

I use to be able to save myself by timing a sole survivor with a soul eater with a TBN to give the healer enough time to heal me.

The sad thing is when I use LD I am not scared that the boss will kill me. I am scared that I will kill me.

[AncientCrystal]

My honest opinion on this is that I feel that the devs want to make jobs feel unique. I agree, the ability of annoying but I lean more toward the idea that people need to communicate with their team to use it properly which isn't that hard. This is an MMO and the idea is that you communicate with your team.

The devs seem to want to make it a high risk, high reward skill which in some way thrilling. YoshiP said it was because of "job identity". I kinda side with the devs on this one.

[shao32]

I don't think so, SE don't really cares about make certain jobs feel unique, if not they will not waste this chance to make DRK gameplay fun, rewarding and enjoyable, but instead they choose to copy paste huton and inner release with a few high potency oGCD and nerfing the rest.

Say it's a question of job identity keep living dead it's a bad excuse, don't ignore the lack of sinergy of walking dead and DRK kit.