Raid DPS Contribution is IMPORTANT

[raerae]

Interesting opinion. Too bad you choose not to share anything to support it.

I think it's pretty true. AST/SCH interact too well together with indom and earthly star, and it's always been a matter of AST or WHM + SCH, not WHM + SCH or AST. This was only untrue in one fight in all of SB and it really boiled down to the expansion being new and the world first teams playing what they were most comfortable with. I've firmly settled by now that SE really doesn't want Noct to be as good as or better than SCH, either.

The oGCD kits of SCH and AST together trivialize savage healing with the current encounter design which is a lot of downtime between instances of raid damage, they just have such a large amount of combined powerful cooldowns that make it to where you don't even really need to plan your healing out with your cohealer very much, the AST just finds where they want their first star if it needs to be a little late into the pull at all, then drops it more or less on CD and you have everything else to be used inbetween star usages.

Post-buffs AST is a billion times better in ultimates, too.

[Fyce]

I think it's pretty true. AST/SCH interact too well together with indom and earthly star, and it's always been a matter of AST or WHM + SCH, not WHM + SCH or AST. This was only untrue in one fight in all of SB and it really boiled down to the expansion being new and the world first teams playing what they were most comfortable with. I've firmly settled by now that SE really doesn't want Noct to be as good as or better than SCH, either.

The oGCD kits of SCH and AST together trivialize savage healing with the current encounter design which is a lot of downtime between instances of raid damage, they just have such a large amount of combined powerful cooldowns that make it to where you don't even really need to plan your healing out with your cohealer very much, the AST just finds where they want their first star if it needs to be a little late into the pull at all, then drops it more or less on CD and you have everything else to be used inbetween star usages.

Post-buffs AST is a billion times better in ultimates, too.

I don't disagree, but Savage and Ultimates are only the tip of the iceberg. There is a reason why WHM is still the most played healer job in the game. So, saying that "SCH is chosen over WHM" is only relevant in a very finite context (that the person I answered to absolutly didn't provide. They provided literally nothing).
What SCH/AST provides is only really beneficial to a tiny minority of players. WHM is still very good in a lot of situations that are outside of niches.

Also, even in the context of Savage and Ultimates, WHM is absolutly not altering clear rates in a dramatic way that would justify excluding it. Jobs that are not optimal are absolutly not an issue whatsoever in this game. Which implies that being flexible should be more valuable than blindly following whatever meta. And unfortunatly, lots of player don't understand that, put their blinkers on and go straight without taking the time to think about the situation they're in and how relevant (or not) that meta is for them.

In short, people often dismiss WHM because what it provides "isn't needed". Except that in a lot of cases, it is definitly welcome. But these cases are dismissed as well, even if they represent the vast majority of how people are playing this game.

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But, anyway, I won't hide that my previous post was a way to point the finger someone who played the "I'm going to speak in this thread but add nothing of value to it. But at least nobody will be able to argue against my arguments, since I have none!" card. Kudos to you for actually arguing in their place. They tried to pull a "I know stuff that you don't, but I'm not going to tell you! Look at how smart I am!" kind of post, and I wanted them to know that they didn't provide anything constructive for anyone.
So, glad that I got an actual proper answer. Sad it wasn't from the person that should've gave it.

[Crushnight]

snip snip

Will have to say there was only ever 2 times jobs have been unplayable in content in this game and they were 2.0 war and 3.0 ast these were both stupidly bad that war got a rework in 2.1 and ast received buffs throughout HW (side note i think due to these failures the devs are quicker to sort these jobs out than most others when issues arise), other than these 2 instances everything has been usable at any other point.

That said when you start looking at savage and ultimate you are looking at your comp more and the utilities each job brings and this is where whm usage falls off due to it not providing enough pDPS to make up for no rDPS, the other hlrs bring both on par pDPS and rDPS this is an issue, whm level of healing is also unnecessary and that is an issue, whm only provided a single target shield good for tankbusters not so much raidwide dmg which was an issue that ShB is seemingly fixing.

So far ShB is only sorting a single issue and its the least bad issue out of them, we will have to wait and see if the other 2 issues are addressed in any way but so far the information is saying nope which means for high levels of play whm is again bottom of the barrel, i like to stress again whm would be viable in all content but there is no way people should feel like they are weakening their group for playing the job they enjoy