Raid DPS Contribution is IMPORTANT

[Crushnight]

I love that people think sch is chosen over whm because of chain alone. Chain could not exist and sch would still be better than whm

if leaks are true then theres an ability that would make sch the preferred offhealer/shield hlr which would then make whm/ast compete for a spot again and i think ast wins again, whm just has nothing to answer for ast cards/other buffs and that is the underlying problem whm needs a rdps buff on a decent level to make it desirable and i'm using that word specifically because all 3 will be viable, that i don't doubt, just not all 3 will be desirable anywhere near each other.

[Mansion]

if leaks are true then theres an ability that would make sch the preferred offhealer/shield hlr which would then make whm/ast compete for a spot again and i think ast wins again, whm just has nothing to answer for ast cards/other buffs and that is the underlying problem whm needs a rdps buff on a decent level to make it desirable and i'm using that word specifically because all 3 will be viable, that i don't doubt, just not all 3 will be desirable anywhere near each other.

If the leaks are true, AST has cards for around 6% individual DPS increase and a buff based on the number of different cards active that is max 6% too. (Plus access to both sects on an ability and a strong mono target ability that uses the other sect aspect. New AoE heals free of MP cost.
WHM has a 10 % defensive buff, that's it. The rest is pure healing (single target or party wide), a big nuke every 90seconds. There is still one unknown skill in its kit that seems tied to the lilies though.

IMO, WHM is not competitive at all, because it always boils down to DPS up rather than Defense up.

[Crushnight]

If the leaks are true, AST has cards for around 6% individual DPS increase and a buff based on the number of different cards active that is max 6% too. (Plus access to both sects on an ability and a strong mono target ability that uses the other sect aspect. New AoE heals free of MP cost.
WHM has a 10 % defensive buff, that's it. The rest is pure healing (single target or party wide), a big nuke every 90seconds. There is still one unknown skill in its kit that seems tied to the lilies though.

IMO, WHM is not competitive at all, because it always boils down to DPS up rather than Defense up.

Yea i agree there is nothing within the leaks that suggest that they actually looked at the hlr kits properly to determine why ast/sch was so preferred and why whm was left behind so much, I'd really like to know who said to the devs that the healer changes were good at their events because they are not from the info we have. This supposed balance is a joke.

I do want to reiterate i do not doubt all 3 hlrs will be viable but ast/sch just have way more going for them again.

[raerae]

, a big nuke every 90seconds.

The funny thing about this is even by the standards of stone 4 the nuke is a DPS loss. It costs you 4 GCDs to use it since you need to heal 3 times to have it available and the nuke itself is also a GCD.
It'll be nice for pugging, but with how healing works atm it's pretty uncommon to need even 2 GCD heals in 90 seconds let alone 3 so the most realistic case for it is it'll be about DPS neutral, slight loss or slight gain which is really laughable to have over a 90 second span. Imagine 2 of those heals in that 90 second window was necessary, the potency gained would be like if you got an extra cast of stone in those 90 seconds. Sad.

[Mansion]

The funny thing about this is even by the standards of stone 4 the nuke is a DPS loss. It costs you 4 GCDs to use it since you need to heal 3 times to have it available and the nuke itself is also a GCD.
It'll be nice for pugging, but with how healing works atm it's pretty uncommon to need even 2 GCD heals in 90 seconds let alone 3 so the most realistic case for it is it'll be about DPS neutral, slight loss or slight gain which is really laughable to have over a 90 second span. Imagine 2 of those heals in that 90 second window was necessary, the potency gained would be like if you got an extra cast of stone in those 90 seconds. Sad.

I actually hope there is something in the kit like using Assize, Tetra or whatever will consume a black lily (and shorten the CD or boost potency) so that the black lilies are not only tied to that GCD instant heal (which is otherwise welcome in WHM's kit). I'm looking at that spell we know nothing about yet. If it's a DPS GCD that requires a black Lily, then it should be okay.

But "okay" is not enough to compete with AST and SCH, until proven otherwise.

snip

That's a fairly common question about what is the basis of balance, should it be high end or casual play? There are aguments in both sides, but I tend to say high end is the better option because if you have a nicely designed job for high end, there's no reason it makes it clunky to play in casual content.
Also, we have seen that another "casual" job struggles in High-end raid (Red Mage). The problem is different but it boils down to the same results : it does very well in casual, but needs a bit more in high end. Yet it leaves the sour taste that it was designed for a limited casual content, and that kind of shuts it out of optimal play in Savage. While all those savage optimal jobs just play as easily in casual content.

We'll agree that we are just fighting on small details because as you say, nothing is unplayable right now; white mages, machinists and red mages do clear savage raids. But players are asking for the little thing that would make it more comfortable in savage and that would not change anything in casual gameplay.

(Forgive me if I don't go too much into details because I wanted to make the answer sraightforward, but I can explain a little more if you need me to!)