Sanity check - crafting job skip potions?

[savageink]

It doesn't gate-keep any content that is unrelated to it that a player might want to access.

Sort of. It depends on how you view Beast Tribe quests. My only interest in crafting is Beast tribe rewards. the hw and sb beast tribe mounts still feel pretty gated, since doing ixal only got me to level 43. so, i have to drag myself through 7 more levels of uninteresting button pushing while sitting in one place.

[Penthea]

Sort of. It depends on how you view Beast Tribe quests. My only interest in crafting is Beast tribe rewards. the hw and sb beast tribe mounts still feel pretty gated, since doing ixal only got me to level 43. so, i have to drag myself through 7 more levels of uninteresting button pushing while sitting in one place.

You would have a point if those quests didn't require crafting and gathering. But they do. So it's still DoH and DoL content. Not solely combat class content.

The only content that is solely combat based that DoL and DoH gatekeep is the final beast tribe quest you get when you have all beast tribes of that expansion on max reputation. So that's three quest-lines in the entire game. That's not much.

[savageink]

You would have a point if those quests didn't require crafting and gathering. But they do. So it's still DoH and DoL content. Not solely combat class content.

The only content that is solely combat based that DoL and DoH gatekeep is the final beast tribe quest you get when you have all beast tribes of that expansion on max reputation. So that's three quest-lines in the entire game. That's not much.

Yeah, that's why I said "sort of". One other thing is annoyingly craft related. The original relic quests had those level 50 craftable items which at level 50 are terribly expensive if you don't make them yourself or have a pal who is feeling kind. but that's kind of nitpicky. I do think they really need to add those to a vendor somewhere at this point, though.

[Krotoan]

No, that is assuming anyone does. Every person that no longer needs to craft for exp equals less items on the MB. How can that not be obvious?

For every person that buys a Skip pot for crafting there will likely be tens to hundreds that don't. People already balk at Cash shop items in general and while everyone on the forum would love to tell you that everyone is a boosted noob who doesn't know what to do at 70 it's much rarer than they make it. There will be people who have time and no money most definitely making these low level crafts to level their characters. People who would buy pots are unlikely to be those who'd bother crafting useful things anyway, same people who'd follow a crafting guide and just Gil their way up.

Some people avoid the crafting grind because it's such a tedious waste of time. Letting them skip it doesn't lose you any low level crafts, it just increases the mid and high level crafts which , yes, might drive prices down a little but I think there's a bit too many people obsessed with stockpiling (useless, as said by many forumgoers) gil for no reason other than having it.

[TaleraRistain]

Big nope on this one

[Jojoya]

For every person that buys a Skip pot for crafting there will likely be tens to hundreds that don't. People already balk at Cash shop items in general and while everyone on the forum would love to tell you that everyone is a boosted noob who doesn't know what to do at 70 it's much rarer than they make it. There will be people who have time and no money most definitely making these low level crafts to level their characters. People who would buy pots are unlikely to be those who'd bother crafting useful things anyway, same people who'd follow a crafting guide and just Gil their way up.

Some people avoid the crafting grind because it's such a tedious waste of time. Letting them skip it doesn't lose you any low level crafts, it just increases the mid and high level crafts which , yes, might drive prices down a little but I think there's a bit too many people obsessed with stockpiling (useless, as said by many forumgoers) gil for no reason other than having it.

So then why do they want max level crafters if they don't like the crafting grind? It doesn't suddenly change as content just because you're max level. If anything it becomes worse because end game gear can require 150-200 steps unless you've spent a fortune on materia to max out your overmelds so you can use all NQ mats. Even then you're still looking at about 80-100 steps per end game piece (or paying others large sums for materials they've already crafted).

If those players don't want the grind, then DoH/DoL is not the content for them anymore than Eureka was content for players who dislike old school MMOs. What are they going to do when level caps get raised and they're suddenly faced with that grind after all but on a more difficult level?

Adding a skip potion would only remove the low level crafted goods from the market boards since many of those who would otherwise level DoH jobs normally would go ahead and pay for the potion because of the convenience just as I have friends who are paying for jump potions for DoW/DoM jobs that they would have still leveled without the potions but instead use the jump potions for convenience.

Too much convenience gets to be unhealthy for MMOs. Jump potions for something that is side content definitely would be unhealthy.

[Lersayil]

So then why do they want max level crafters if they don't like the crafting grind? It doesn't suddenly change as content just because you're max level. If anything it becomes worse because end game gear can require 150-200 steps unless you've spent a fortune on materia to max out your overmelds so you can use all NQ mats. Even then you're still looking at about 80-100 steps per end game piece (or paying others large sums for materials they've already crafted).

If those players don't want the grind, then DoH/DoL is not the content for them anymore than Eureka was content for players who dislike old school MMOs. What are they going to do when level caps get raised and they're suddenly faced with that grind after all but on a more difficult level?

Adding a skip potion would only remove the low level crafted goods from the market boards since many of those who would otherwise level DoH jobs normally would go ahead and pay for the potion because of the convenience just as I have friends who are paying for jump potions for DoW/DoM jobs that they would have still leveled without the potions but instead use the jump potions for convenience.

Too much convenience gets to be unhealthy for MMOs. Jump potions for something that is side content definitely would be unhealthy.

I mean I'm not saying that current rotations are too involved (non macro specialist rotations are interesting maybe?) but its still miles better than what crafters have sub-50. I had to force myself to 50 on one DoH just to have any interest in crafting at all (and it took years).

Now I'm mostly crafting high price, low supply, but low return stuff just for the fun of it, not exactly making much in the process. But the point is I'm having fun doing it, I'm not grinding, and I still hate everything DoH sub 50.

That being said, I still wouldn't buy any kind of boost potion, but I can very much see and understand why some people would want to skip over that stretch and still enjoy the high level crafting.

[Krotoan]

So then why do they want max level crafters if they don't like the crafting grind? It doesn't suddenly change as content just because you're max level. If anything it becomes worse because end game gear can require 150-200 steps unless you've spent a fortune on materia to max out your overmelds so you can use all NQ mats. Even then you're still looking at about 80-100 steps per end game piece (or paying others large sums for materials they've already crafted).

If those players don't want the grind, then DoH/DoL is not the content for them anymore than Eureka was content for players who dislike old school MMOs. What are they going to do when level caps get raised and they're suddenly faced with that grind after all but on a more difficult level?

Adding a skip potion would only remove the low level crafted goods from the market boards since many of those who would otherwise level DoH jobs normally would go ahead and pay for the potion because of the convenience just as I have friends who are paying for jump potions for DoW/DoM jobs that they would have still leveled without the potions but instead use the jump potions for convenience.

Too much convenience gets to be unhealthy for MMOs. Jump potions for something that is side content definitely would be unhealthy.

For the same reason someone uses the MSQ or Job skip pots, because the lower levels are a mostly irrelevant boring grind. 60-70 crafting offers goals for housing, pets and glamours. There's the master craft books, getting mats to make rare outfits and being able to use materials farmed in endgame areas. Having those crafting options open creates a richer experience for someone farting around at endgame. If anything it'd create opportunities for decent profit from the lack of lowlevel crafters for people who aren't crazy geared omnicrafters. You won't have to be top tier to make any money, you can be joe middle craft with a steady profit from up and coming adventurers.

[Alleo]

You could argue some people have lives to live, an expendable amount of income, and are superfans of Final Fantasy. They want to experience everything the game has to offer without locking themselves in a room for 10 plus hours a day.

Is it unreasonable to allow them to eventually have all these things? It is just a game afterall. I think that most of this stuff could stay exclusive to in game only for x amount of time and then open up on the mog station for purchase.

But when does it stop? I like the glamour looks of the ultimate weapons but I am not good enough to beat it. But I want it and have money, so please give us an option to buy it. I also like the mounts from PVP but dont like PVP. Please give us a way to buy them for rl money instead of working for them ingame.

The thing is, to be a good crafter you need time. Just the amount of time you need to get the scrips to get gear. Should they hand that out too?

If you start it with one part, you will open the box of pandora and will have people wanting more.

Getting to level 50 on all eight crafting jobs IS a massive time sink, and the Ixal quests with their pitiful amount of experience that basically requires you to burn up all your daily beast tribe allowances that the Moogles/Namazu do in three quests is pretty bad. And for those who talk about crafting kits.... your still looking at millions of Gil to get all eight jobs just to level 50. That's not even mentioning the gathering jobs which fisher is still pretty terrible to level below level 60.

Also I'd say that your argument is a false equivalency. Triple Triad has no bearing on the rest of game play except to play more triple triad, same with the arguments about dyes and mounts. Crafting and gathering, on the other hand, tie directly back into battle jobs as the ability to create new weapons, armor, potions, and raid food. Being able to just catch up won't take away anything from people who already did it years ago. Even the jump potions now don't take you all the way to the end game, and jump potions for crafting/gathering shouldn't get you directly to level 70 either. Just far enough along that it's not something that would take months upon months if not longer just to be caught up with everyone else.

And the game need time sinks because if people can just buy their way to the top then they will have nothing to do. And if you dont want to do the (imo) reasonable grind with beast tribes and other stuff then do you really want to do it truly? Also why would you need millions of gil? If you want all eight jobs at lvl 50 then you dont need gil. You only need to invest more if you want to be a true omnicrafter and that will take time anyway.

But you also dont need crafting stuff to beat the regular game. Only if you want to raid the hardest raids but those are also not part of the basic experience. Anything else can be get by running content or buying it with tomestones. So crafting is still only a side content just like TT. Also now with all the things in it to make it easier to level up, you wont need months over months to level them up. Daily beast tribes, handing in stuff for the city states, doing your crafting quests and more will not make it that much of a grind. If you really care about crafting you should have been able to do this from the last big patch to the release of SB. And I also doubt that someone that is completely new to the game will take crafters and gatherers over doing stuff on their battle jobs. And the rest can be leveled up afterwards without any problems. (And catch up gear in later patches will even make it much easier if you get in later too.)

[Lersayil]

But when does it stop? I like the glamour looks of the ultimate weapons but I am not good enough to beat it. But I want it and have money, so please give us an option to buy it. I also like the mounts from PVP but dont like PVP. Please give us a way to buy them for rl money instead of working for them ingame.

The thing is, to be a good crafter you need time. Just the amount of time you need to get the scrips to get gear. Should they hand that out too?

If you start it with one part, you will open the box of pandora and will have people wanting more.

Slippery slope argument and not a great one. Skipping content that gives you access to more content != skipping content that gives you a reward. That is a fairly simple and straightforward distinction. Skipping 50-60 levels is not the end of the journey. It would barely qualify as the start.

And while I would generally agree that more time spent on a class probably leads to more skill... please. Crafting requires very little actual skill. Possibly less than a DoW/DoM. If you are using macros, the only thing you have to learn is to set up those macros and look at a flowchart.

Picking up crafting rotation on an acceptable level is a very low effort and simple thing to do, even if you skip some stuff. Not to mention that unlike a combat class the skill deficit comming from the skip would only affect the skipper and no one else.

As for the second part of your post, you forget people that would otherwise skip crafting alltogether. You sell them a skip potion, profit from it, and with it give them access to something a slightly more engaging than the sub 50 crafting, which if they like, gives them another timesink that they wouldn't have otherwise.