Sanity check - crafting job skip potions?

[Krotoan]

No, that is assuming anyone does. Every person that no longer needs to craft for exp equals less items on the MB. How can that not be obvious?

For every person that buys a Skip pot for crafting there will likely be tens to hundreds that don't. People already balk at Cash shop items in general and while everyone on the forum would love to tell you that everyone is a boosted noob who doesn't know what to do at 70 it's much rarer than they make it. There will be people who have time and no money most definitely making these low level crafts to level their characters. People who would buy pots are unlikely to be those who'd bother crafting useful things anyway, same people who'd follow a crafting guide and just Gil their way up.

Some people avoid the crafting grind because it's such a tedious waste of time. Letting them skip it doesn't lose you any low level crafts, it just increases the mid and high level crafts which , yes, might drive prices down a little but I think there's a bit too many people obsessed with stockpiling (useless, as said by many forumgoers) gil for no reason other than having it.

[Jojoya]

For every person that buys a Skip pot for crafting there will likely be tens to hundreds that don't. People already balk at Cash shop items in general and while everyone on the forum would love to tell you that everyone is a boosted noob who doesn't know what to do at 70 it's much rarer than they make it. There will be people who have time and no money most definitely making these low level crafts to level their characters. People who would buy pots are unlikely to be those who'd bother crafting useful things anyway, same people who'd follow a crafting guide and just Gil their way up.

Some people avoid the crafting grind because it's such a tedious waste of time. Letting them skip it doesn't lose you any low level crafts, it just increases the mid and high level crafts which , yes, might drive prices down a little but I think there's a bit too many people obsessed with stockpiling (useless, as said by many forumgoers) gil for no reason other than having it.

So then why do they want max level crafters if they don't like the crafting grind? It doesn't suddenly change as content just because you're max level. If anything it becomes worse because end game gear can require 150-200 steps unless you've spent a fortune on materia to max out your overmelds so you can use all NQ mats. Even then you're still looking at about 80-100 steps per end game piece (or paying others large sums for materials they've already crafted).

If those players don't want the grind, then DoH/DoL is not the content for them anymore than Eureka was content for players who dislike old school MMOs. What are they going to do when level caps get raised and they're suddenly faced with that grind after all but on a more difficult level?

Adding a skip potion would only remove the low level crafted goods from the market boards since many of those who would otherwise level DoH jobs normally would go ahead and pay for the potion because of the convenience just as I have friends who are paying for jump potions for DoW/DoM jobs that they would have still leveled without the potions but instead use the jump potions for convenience.

Too much convenience gets to be unhealthy for MMOs. Jump potions for something that is side content definitely would be unhealthy.

[Lersayil]

So then why do they want max level crafters if they don't like the crafting grind? It doesn't suddenly change as content just because you're max level. If anything it becomes worse because end game gear can require 150-200 steps unless you've spent a fortune on materia to max out your overmelds so you can use all NQ mats. Even then you're still looking at about 80-100 steps per end game piece (or paying others large sums for materials they've already crafted).

If those players don't want the grind, then DoH/DoL is not the content for them anymore than Eureka was content for players who dislike old school MMOs. What are they going to do when level caps get raised and they're suddenly faced with that grind after all but on a more difficult level?

Adding a skip potion would only remove the low level crafted goods from the market boards since many of those who would otherwise level DoH jobs normally would go ahead and pay for the potion because of the convenience just as I have friends who are paying for jump potions for DoW/DoM jobs that they would have still leveled without the potions but instead use the jump potions for convenience.

Too much convenience gets to be unhealthy for MMOs. Jump potions for something that is side content definitely would be unhealthy.

I mean I'm not saying that current rotations are too involved (non macro specialist rotations are interesting maybe?) but its still miles better than what crafters have sub-50. I had to force myself to 50 on one DoH just to have any interest in crafting at all (and it took years).

Now I'm mostly crafting high price, low supply, but low return stuff just for the fun of it, not exactly making much in the process. But the point is I'm having fun doing it, I'm not grinding, and I still hate everything DoH sub 50.

That being said, I still wouldn't buy any kind of boost potion, but I can very much see and understand why some people would want to skip over that stretch and still enjoy the high level crafting.

[Krotoan]

So then why do they want max level crafters if they don't like the crafting grind? It doesn't suddenly change as content just because you're max level. If anything it becomes worse because end game gear can require 150-200 steps unless you've spent a fortune on materia to max out your overmelds so you can use all NQ mats. Even then you're still looking at about 80-100 steps per end game piece (or paying others large sums for materials they've already crafted).

If those players don't want the grind, then DoH/DoL is not the content for them anymore than Eureka was content for players who dislike old school MMOs. What are they going to do when level caps get raised and they're suddenly faced with that grind after all but on a more difficult level?

Adding a skip potion would only remove the low level crafted goods from the market boards since many of those who would otherwise level DoH jobs normally would go ahead and pay for the potion because of the convenience just as I have friends who are paying for jump potions for DoW/DoM jobs that they would have still leveled without the potions but instead use the jump potions for convenience.

Too much convenience gets to be unhealthy for MMOs. Jump potions for something that is side content definitely would be unhealthy.

For the same reason someone uses the MSQ or Job skip pots, because the lower levels are a mostly irrelevant boring grind. 60-70 crafting offers goals for housing, pets and glamours. There's the master craft books, getting mats to make rare outfits and being able to use materials farmed in endgame areas. Having those crafting options open creates a richer experience for someone farting around at endgame. If anything it'd create opportunities for decent profit from the lack of lowlevel crafters for people who aren't crazy geared omnicrafters. You won't have to be top tier to make any money, you can be joe middle craft with a steady profit from up and coming adventurers.

[Penthea]

For the same reason someone uses the MSQ or Job skip pots, because the lower levels are a mostly irrelevant boring grind. 60-70 crafting offers goals for housing, pets and glamours. There's the master craft books, getting mats to make rare outfits and being able to use materials farmed in endgame areas.

You can craft furnishings before lvl 20. Glam gear and pets start at lvl 50. The first mastercraft books can be obtained at lvl 50. Some lvl 50 furnishings sell for several hundred thousand gil. Crafting is relevant and profitable long before lvl 60. Especially with how in FFXIV crafting materials don't become immediately useless as soon as you lvl up past a certain point. Lots of high lvl crafts need lower end materials. Also cosmetic items never completely lose value, particularly if their materials are rare or if the craft is from a masterbook.

[Alleo]

You can craft furnishings before lvl 20. Glam gear and pets start at lvl 50. The first mastercraft books can be obtained at lvl 50. Some lvl 50 furnishings sell for several hundred thousand gil. Crafting is relevant and profitable long before lvl 60. Especially with how in FFXIV crafting materials don't become immediately useless as soon as you lvl up past a certain point. Lots of high lvl crafts need lower end materials. Also cosmetic items never completely lose value, particularly if their materials are rare or if the craft is from a masterbook.

And if someone wants it only for making money, just do some of the most needed low level crafting items and you will make quite a good amount of gil. At least on those levels you dont need the best equiqment to do stuff. Everything on the high level (which includes the newest housing items, glamour and pets) need very good equipment and gatherers on high level too if you dont want to buy everything. So it needs a big investment...will someone really do that if they cant even be bothered to level them up the normal way?

[Krotoan]

You can craft furnishings before lvl 20. Glam gear and pets start at lvl 50. The first mastercraft books can be obtained at lvl 50. Some lvl 50 furnishings sell for several hundred thousand gil. Crafting is relevant and profitable long before lvl 60. Especially with how in FFXIV crafting materials don't become immediately useless as soon as you lvl up past a certain point. Lots of high lvl crafts need lower end materials. Also cosmetic items never completely lose value, particularly if their materials are rare or if the craft is from a masterbook.

OK. Skip pot to 50 then. I'm game.

[Lersayil]

OK. Skip pot to 50 then. I'm game.

I can get behind that. But I guess SE would want to keep it uniform and go for the usual "max - 10" formula. Post 50 is mostly a fine experience due to specialization and being less reliant on omni skills to make the crafting flow even slightly interesting (or successful).

My only beef is with the sub 50 zone which I find egregious.

[Penthea]

And if someone wants it only for making money, just do some of the most needed low level crafting items and you will make quite a good amount of gil.

OK. Skip pot to 50 then. I'm game.

Clearly you misunderstood my post and the person above you I quoted. Crafting doesn't start becoming profitable and relevant at 50. You can start making decent money at around lvl 20. The same goes for gathering.

At least on those levels you dont need the best equiqment to do stuff. Everything on the high level (which includes the newest housing items, glamour and pets) need very good equipment and gatherers on high level too if you dont want to buy everything. So it needs a big investment...will someone really do that if they cant even be bothered to level them up the normal way?

Likely no. I know a few people who bought their crafting materials because they were too lazy to gather, and they also used an online guide with macros to do the crafting for them. They hadn't a clue how to craft on their own. By the time they reached max lvl and hit the point in which they would need to start doing specific things for scrips they lost whatever small interest they had. They complained about how hitting max lvl isn't enough to craft everything and gave up on it.

I saw similar with a player who bought boosts for everything. Msq and all their classes. They were upset to find out that when you're lvl 60 people expect you to be able to play as if you're lvl 60, and not a lvl 20 sprout. They were annoyed that content at lvl 50+ is significantly more challenging than Toto-rak. They were angry that buying the boost wasn't enough to get them through the game. So they quit.

People who buy shortcuts because they cannot be bothered to work towards a goal typically end up quitting at the point in which they cannot buy their way anymore. Not always, but it's usually how it goes.

[Krotoan]

Clearly you misunderstood my post and the person above you I quoted. Crafting doesn't start becoming profitable and relevant at 50. You can start making decent money at around lvl 20. The same goes for gathering.

Profitable doesn't necessarily mean fun or exciting. But the point I was trying to make there was the majority of the "current" and engaging content for crafting is later rather than sooner. Things that shine/glow and are useful. Putting in a shortcut but not an escalator straight to it isn't a crime.. in my opinion.

Likely no. I know a few people who bought their crafting materials because they were too lazy to gather, and they also used an online guide with macros to do the crafting for them. They hadn't a clue how to craft on their own. By the time they reached max lvl and hit the point in which they would need to start doing specific things for scrips they lost whatever small interest they had. They complained about how hitting max lvl isn't enough to craft everything and gave up on it.

I saw similar with a player who bought boosts for everything. Msq and all their classes. They were upset to find out that when you're lvl 60 people expect you to be able to play as if you're lvl 60, and not a lvl 20 sprout. They were annoyed that content at lvl 50+ is significantly more challenging than Toto-rak. They were angry that buying the boost wasn't enough to get them through the game. So they quit.

People who buy shortcuts because they cannot be bothered to work towards a goal typically end up quitting at the point in which they cannot buy their way anymore. Not always, but it's usually how it goes.

All examples showing people not "destroying the market" after a pot was used and also showing that it is just a shortcut, there's still challenge to be had even post reaching 70