"Tanks and Healers do too much Damage..."

[xJimmehx]

I don't think tanks do too much damage. Theres no real reason why a tank should do less damage. "For peoples feelings" isnt a really good response. So long as tanks keep hate and survive, dps help kill things and healers heal people. There is balance. Restrict synced duties to require 1 tank and healer for every 2 dps and we will be fine no matter how high/low the dps is for healers and tanks.

If WAR gets nerfed, I'll jump ship. Im not spending time chipping away at creatures health for 5 minutes per OVERWORLD mob on the same level. Heavensword and Stormblood were bad enough. All just for some peoples "Feelings." What about tanks feelings when we are forced to queue solo? What about when we are asked to kill things in Eureka or in the Overworld? Fates, Leves, Hunts, etc.

[AxlStream]

Though I probably wouldn't have been as...abrasive about it, there is indeed a number of dps players who simply don't care to improve. There is no mistaking that. I will take "good enough" over "good lord they're so bad" any day of the week though.

Well "good enough" means, you see that Warrior over there? The one that does 5K DPS? Well he's gonna top the damage charts and going to have more value than you at any point in time. I do agree that "good enough" is better than "dear lord someone take the keyboard/controller away from him".

[Kuurei]

Or they could change encounter design to require more active tanking and healing.

They could. And I'd welcome it.

ATM though, with current encounter design, a Tank or Healer's worth is judged by the additional DPS they add to the fight more so than their actually role choice.

Axl has the right of it too, nearly every DPS job played as close to optimally as possible will outperform a Tank or Healer in terms of damage, whether or not buffs come into play.

[linay]

Well "good enough" means, you see that Warrior over there? The one that does 5K DPS? Well he's gonna top the damage charts and going to have more value than you at any point in time. I do agree that "good enough" is better than "dear lord someone take the keyboard/controller away from him".

Strictly speaking, good enough (in terms of damage) means you can be carried through any given DPS checks. At that point, it doesn't matter who's at the top of a third-party software chart (aka who's doing the carry).

[Melichoir]

This doesnt make sense.

Ok, so the Devs set the DPS checks in the game, so if the tanks/heals do to much damage, its only because they set a DPS check that needs tanks and healers to deal a set amount of damage. This gets even more on point when you consider the simple fact that Most tanks drop out of Tank stance for that DPS, and even then, still dont do as much as the DPS themselves. Which makes perfect sense - tanks get more mitigation and HP at the cost of damage. Even warriors over the duration of a fight wont out DPS at dedicated dps of equal skill and gear.

If they want to make sure tanks/heals do 'less damage' then they need to adjust the damage checks while nerfing tanks and heals but increasing enmity generation even harder. That or just make bosses hit so damn hard on AA that tanks need to sit in grit while MT.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Strictly speaking, good enough (in terms of damage) means you can be carried through any given DPS checks. At that point, it doesn't matter who's at the top of a third-party software chart (aka who's doing the carry).

The problem with this line of thinking, is that if all the dps are slacking, the tanks and healers have to put in a lot more effort to get through. It's not hard to do even decent numbers as a dps. Just doing the bare minimum of pushing combos in the right order does more damage than most pugs I've seen...

[Dzian]

Strictly speaking, good enough (in terms of damage) means you can be carried through any given DPS checks. At that point, it doesn't matter who's at the top of a third-party software chart (aka who's doing the carry).

I think the good enough mentality comes from how easy content really is. When you can put forth 10% effort and still clear 100% of the time what reason is there to do more.

Encounters are tuned to low and far to forgiving. Especially so on a dungeon level where you can basically ignore the hell out of every mechanic and just mash away at some buttons and still win while watching Netflix...

I also think encounter design is a problem in many ways. Scripted encounters are boring you always know what's coming next and it takes a lot of the fun out of a fight which again is why people just mash buttons and watch Netflix instead..

scripted encounters are also why tanks and healers do so much damage. when a healer knows they'll need to toss 1 lustrate or ED in 20 seconds and maybe 1 aoe heal in 45 seconds... and thats them covered for the next minute... what are they supposed to do....

[Liam_Harper]

This makes no sense to me.

As a dps, I've never felt my importance is threatened by the tanks dps. You can't just fill a group with 6 tanks for example and faceroll current content. My potential as a dps is always significantly higher than the tanks and in a game where the enrage timer is everything, that difference is vital. I am a very impactful role.

If you simply strip tank/healer damage away, you get a class that is tedious to level with, tedious to Eureka with, tedious to quest with and you gain no real benefit from it. Why do that?

[linay]

The problem with this line of thinking, is that if all the dps are slacking, the tanks and healers have to put in a lot more effort to get through.

Anyone who is not intentionally slacking will do their best effort any way to meet a DPS check. I don't think most people would actually consider how much effort to put into dealing damage by first looking if the other people are slacking. So it's not a problem with any line of thinking as I was just simply defining what "good enough" means. If you fail the DPS checks, then obviously you weren't good enough, whether it be due to lack of effort or skill.

It's not hard to do even decent numbers as a dps. Just doing the bare minimum of pushing combos in the right order does more damage than most pugs I've seen...

Well, as I don't use a parser, I'll just take your worth for it. All I know is, in my limited experience, parties often wipe mostly due to failing mechanics/dying, which also contributes to not meeting DPS checks, rather than simply failing to output decent damage due to not pressing the minimum right combo.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Anyone who is not intentionally slacking will do their best effort any way to meet a DPS check. I don't think most people would actually consider how much effort to put into dealing damage by first looking if the other people are slacking. So it's not a problem with any line of thinking as I was just simply defining what "good enough" means. If you fail the DPS checks, then obviously you weren't good enough, whether it be due to lack of effort or skill. Well, as I don't use a parser, I'll just take your worth for it. All I know is, in my limited experience, parties often wipe mostly due to failing mechanics/dying, which also contributes to not meeting DPS checks, rather than simply failing to output decent damage due to not pressing the minimum right combo.

I had a syrcus tower run yesterday that had 2, almost 3 wipes to Glasya labolas, because the dps wasn't enough to burn him before his initial boom. I have seen a wipe there in.... 4 years? We also saw 5 analysis from mustadio in orbonne..... I hadn't ever seen more than 3 before that, and only a couple of times.