Removing Tank Stance Argument

[Shurrikhan]

I think every time I see this argument, I see the same irritating argument. "Tank Stance just isn't needed in raiding, we should gut it altogether." No, because there's content outside of raids, which are done to get gear so we can do things IN raids. You want to start making dungeons impossible? Then stop making PF iLevels so obscenely high on week one so I can't even get into learning parties.

Now that that's out of the way, perhaps if tank stance didn't feel like such a crutch, we wouldn't be so angled against it? I have an idea I haven't seen anyone else suggest, so...

Why not give the tankstance a non-stacking vulnerability debuff on its autoattacks? If you're in tankstance, then you're already angling to give the party an easier time by decreasing the threat towards yourself. Why not angle it the other way and make it a double edged shield? Give it something like a 15 second duration, so that they can jump into DPS stance to exploit burst windows, but will jump back in as soon as its done to go back to team support. It could alternatively be a group damage buff, but I feel like that wouldn't mesh well with Alliance Raids (unless it's the first cross-alliance buff).

Why should a tank have less sustained efficiency against auto-attacks than even a Dragoon, though, whatever its stance?
At best I could see this for a compromising offensive stance than can be flexibly timed, like a revised Berserk -- not as a penalty for being, of all things, a tank (albeit one who doesn't want to actively sacrifice 15+% of its base damage or 25+% of its practical damage).

[SargentToughie]

I think every time I see this argument, I see the same irritating argument. "Tank Stance just isn't needed in raiding, we should gut it altogether." No, because there's content outside of raids, which are done to get gear so we can do things IN raids. You want to start making dungeons impossible? Then stop making PF iLevels so obscenely high on week one so I can't even get into learning parties.

Nobody is suggesting that tank stances just be gutted and nothing else changed. Tank stances not being used in raids is an argument for why they're not needed, but obviously some more systematic changes would need to be changed to facilitate it. Bump up tank aggro generation by default, balance outgoing damage specifically around Tank CDs, ETC ETC.

What we actually want is a more cohesive skill ceiling, one that doesn't instill bad habits into new players of the role, or facilitate the mindset that a Paladin going into level 70 content is doing his job "perfectly fine" by only using buttons he's gotten unlocked by level 30. I want my Maximum Damage rotation to also provide me with the maximum amount of sustain, or mitigation. I don't want any more stupid arguments about the "proper" way to play tank, or any more strawman arguments about why tanks should 'just tank' when they refuse to live up to their full potential.

[shao32]

well acording to some ppl on the media tour tank stances are gone, i just love it.

[whiskeybravo]

well acording to some ppl on the media tour tank stances are gone, i just love it.

I'm not sure how I feel about that, you know, Warrior having the best tank stance in the game and all

:P

No voke, no shirk, no tank stance.. Man it does kinda sound like we'll be getting MT/OT split. Saddays

[shao32]

I'm not sure how I feel about that, you know, Warrior having the best tank stance in the game and all

:P

No voke, no shirk, no tank stance.. Man it does kinda sound like we'll be getting MT/OT split. Saddays

the leak say WAR get the storm path old buff again, so yeah looks like they are going in to that, 100% uptime buffs-debuffs to split tanks meaby?

but losing tank stance don't mean lose provoke and shirk so idk what you mean with that.

[whiskeybravo]

the leak say WAR get the storm path old buff again, so yeah looks like they are going in to that, 100% uptime buffs-debuffs to split tanks meaby?

but losing tank stance don't mean lose provoke and shirk so idk what you mean with that.

Ah, there was that "other thing" about removal of role actions. Which I find kind of silly personally, but if true, would entail some interesting changes such as tank swap mechanics going away, or what class/job abilities are we losing to make room for them becoming regular actions instead of role actions.

[shao32]

Ah, there was that "other thing" about removal of role actions. Which I find kind of silly personally, but if true, would entail some interesting changes such as tank swap mechanics going away, or what class/job abilities are we losing to make room for them becoming regular actions instead of role actions.

mmm i din't heard anything about that, not yet at least, but removing tank swaps mechanics would be a disaster mostly bcs its not a thing only of the tanks but several combats aswell and the need to rework those fights, something i highly doubt.

meaby they reduce the role actions or they make it like we learn the same actions witch each role, like all tanks getting provoke at certain level by force since the "we give you 10 skills and you pick 5" din't work and the "we give you all 10 skills now" was bad in terms of skill bloat for many jobs.

[Dualblade]

On the tank stances, what I'm seeing about it it could either be "stances are removed" OR "drk stances are removed" since they were talking about DRK first and said WAR didn't seem to be changed much (PLD apparently wasn't available at the event).

Another one when talking about role actions was also specifically playing BRD/MCH/DNC so it might be less role actions removed and rather ranged dps are getting bigger changes on theirs. Or people are just bad at wording things/listing changes.

[Kabooa]

I'm not sure how I feel about that, you know, Warrior having the best tank stance in the game and all

:P

No voke, no shirk, no tank stance.. Man it does kinda sound like we'll be getting MT/OT split. Saddays

Shirk is without question the most overpowered ability in the game, and I frankly wouldn't mind seeing it go.

[shao32]

On the tank stances, what I'm seeing about it it could either be "stances are removed" OR "drk stances are removed" since they were talking about DRK first and said WAR didn't seem to be changed much (PLD apparently wasn't available at the event).

Another one when talking about role actions was also specifically playing BRD/MCH/DNC so it might be less role actions removed and rather ranged dps are getting bigger changes on theirs. Or people are just bad at wording things/listing changes.

mostly this, they point that enmity was ajusted, looks like WAR keep his stances and i heard it gets simplified even more so meaby his stances are gonna be part of his rotation and his flow now? apart of path getting his old debuff back.

from PLD i heard they get a new magic AoE so thats cool, and for DRK the rework make it more like HW, they remove the MP combo and we get a new combo of 4 GCD with a new big edgy sword smash.